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Can I work around this in Lux?

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kieran
Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 21, 2005 at 10:15:13 pm

Here's a test render of the problem I'm trying to work around. The TLR camera is a 2d layer auto-oriented to the comp camera, which is rotating around a series of 3d lights rendered by Lux (demo version).

This causes, as I expected, the problem of lights - that should pass behind the camera - passing in front because of the layer order. Moreover, I don't think the workaround suggested in the video tutorial will help, as the "front" and "back" lights are not constant. Rotoscoping is also problematic, as the glow from the foreground lights intersects with the background lights, making them difficult to remove.

This leaves me with two options I can think of - either change the distribution of lights to avoid intersecting glows and then rotoscope, or use the "front"/"back" workaround but with a huge number of lights arranged in the timeline to make it work (this isn't ideal as the final version of the shot will probably be muh more complicated).

So, is there a better way of doing this in lux, or should I look towards investing in particular instead? I'm less familiar with particle systems, but I gather that particular would allow my midground layer to obscure background particles.

thanks
kieran


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Dave
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
by
on Jul 22, 2005 at 2:10:20 am

You need to make the TLR cam 3d layer as well. 3d lights cannot surround
2d layers. So turn your TLR into 3d layer and auto orient towards cam, and it
should work. Make sure to look at multiple views to make certain that your
Cam layer is centered surrounded by 3d lights.

If you have good understanding of 3d space in general, this should be fairly
a simple task.

Hope this helps you.


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Dave
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
by
on Jul 22, 2005 at 5:16:57 am

Things were okay until I applied Lux. Unlike AE's 3d environment, Lux
obviously does not coincide with 3d environment. It is basically just
a "making lites look lit" and no more. Well, I am disappointed with
this plugin. Meanwhile, I will see if I can come up with a solution.

Best,


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Mylenium
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 5:26:40 am

I'm not sure what you are getting at. If you are really only looking for those "spherical glow" type of things, you can always achieve that with 3D layers andd a circle effect applied in place of your lights. Other than that I thing your layer order simply doesn't work out for some strange reason. I agree with Dave, though. Lux isn't that great. It's too inconsequently implemented.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl


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Dave
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
by
on Jul 22, 2005 at 6:43:25 am

If you still want to pursue this, the only thing I can think of is to
avoid crossing over the center TLR layer. Because once you apply Lux
to the light layers, you no long have total 3d environment.

something like this,
http://rapidshare.de/files/3252313/revolving_lites.mov.html


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kieran
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 7:12:48 am

Thanks for the quick responses. The main reason I'd like to use lux is that my eventual aim is to use 3d lights in varying sizes and changing intensities and with other layers (except the stills camera) responding to them, the spheres are just a quick pattern for compositing tests.

The layer order problem is caused because lux is applied to one layer, and if that layer is higher in the timeline than another layer all the lights will appear in front of the other layer. The suggested workaround is to have two instances of lux on separate layers, with one layer only rendering "front" lights and the other, lower in the timeline, rendering "back" lights, using the "name starts with" parameter in the general options (obviously this doesn't have to use "front" and "back" but I use those terms for convenience). In this case, every light is both a "front" and "back" light, as all of them will pass in front of and behind the camera, meaning that I would have to have another set of lights, being rendered by a layer behind my stills camera layer doing exactly the same thing, but timed to appear only when the lights are about to go behind the camera, and then another set of lights to resume being front lights. So for one light passing behind a layer, the timeline would look something like this:
Image hosted by Photobucket.com

That's potentially a lot of work(around) for fast spinning multiple lights..

kieran


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Mylenium
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 8:01:32 am

Ah, there's the problem. You should have everything in one composition, not use nesting. As far as I can see that's where all your problems originate from. In this case Lux no longer will see the nested composition as obscuration (assuming it's jusrt a 2D layer). You also don't have a camera in your comp, which will similarly give Lux nothing to start from. Either switch the layer to be a proper 3D layer and use a proper camera or re-arrange everything in one comp.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl


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Dave
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
by
on Jul 22, 2005 at 8:01:58 am

Yeah, that will work I guess. I still think that Lux should have some kind of obscuration capability to recognize the 3d world of AE in order to avoid any extra hassle.

Regards,


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Mylenium
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 8:14:33 am

Yeah, sorry, my bad. It really doesn't care about obscuration at all. Just gave it a quick shot to verify this since I normally don't use it. Very bad indeed. BTW, you could still avoid a lot of trouble by using matting techniques instead of timing the lights.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl


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kieran
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 8:28:12 am

I think I'll have a go at matting where possible and then using front/back labelling where foreground and background lights overlap..

Is this problem caused by a limitation of AE itself, or could obscuration layers be implemented in lux?

thanks for all the help
kieran


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Mylenium
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 9:13:04 am

As in Particular, the obscuration would have to be implemented in Lux itself since its 3D space is independent from AE's - guess why it's applied to a 2D layer. Shouldn't be too much of a problem to transplant that feature now that the code is in Particular.

Mylenium

[Pour Myl


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Solie Swan
Re: Can I work around this in Lux?
on Jul 22, 2005 at 7:19:10 pm

Could you render out the lux lights with alpha channel and then in a new comp just put the thing in the middle of two layers of the lux lights movie you made. As the two lux light layers are identical, it would look like the light is orbiting the object in the center. Or am I missing something more fundamental here?


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