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C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.

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Marios Karageorgiou
C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 2, 2015 at 7:49:48 pm

Hi everyone,
Im working on a web TV channel that I do as Camera operator and post production a lot of interviews and TV series and recently I sold my gear (5d3, lenses, flash, rigs, tripods etc) to move to C100 or C100 Mark II. The reason I took this decision is that I need an all in one solution.Im tired of hooking, unhooking gear on my Rig, to rebalance it every time I need to change something, to work without waveforms, zebras, peaking (I know I was using ML but still its a pain when you have to take care 100 things and the time is not enough) and so many other things, etc.
So after seeing hundreds of reviews and comparisons and with a tight budget of 5k I thought that the best solution for Run n Gun situations shall be the C100.I saw that it has amazing quality and cinema look by using the C=Log from Canon but there are a few things that makes me scare to dare and thinking to wait until 5D Mark IV will come out.I thought that I could go for a7s with 4k external recorder by Atomos but I really don't like how this camera renders the skin tones.Don't get me wrong Im a big fan of Sony and I know that A7S is a beast but in my opinion the color reproduction Canon cameras have no other camera has.
So after testing the sharpness of C100, Wide DR, low light performance it was clearly much better than my 5D3.
The things that scares me a bit is that after watching as I mentioned earlier many videos of C100 is that in most situations the image was looking like a camcorder's look.I can't describe what I mean because by saying Camcorder look I know it doesn't exist and again the look of C100 was looking something like an old technology and Im not talking about the colours.Its very weird.. the image its sharper but it doesn't look like the one I was recording with my 5d3.. more solid maybe?
The 2nd and final things which matters me also is the lack of vivid colours, colourful video which Im using it in many other things like a day after making a trailer for a married couple and I have them in a location with a river in the forest for example and want to use very vivid colours.So I saw C100 EOS standard profile but its far away from my 5d3.. less colours, saturation and Im not sure if I can bring this in post production.
Im struggling right now and don't know what to do.. any help would be much appreciated Guys!
Thanks.


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Todd Terry
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 2, 2015 at 8:43:20 pm

I would applaud going to the C100.

I know many people love and swear by them, but I hate hate hate using a DSLR as a cine camera... for all the reasons that you've already found that make them so clunky and difficult to use in that situation.

Don't get me wrong... a high-end DSLR these days is a great tool. But in my opinion, if you are doing cine work a DSLR is a wrench, when you need a screwdriver. Both excellent tools, but very different tools for very different uses.

Being that the C100 is the lowest-end (i.e., also cheapest) camera in the Cinema EOS "C" line, you are going to find it in the hands of lots of lower-end users. Nothing wrong with that, but that does mean that the footage you see will be often generated by less-experienced DPs, and often by people who just use it "straight out of the box" without much thought given to the picture profiles. I'll have to confess, I have never used a C100 (my experience with only with C300 and C500), but from what I gather I believe they operate extraordinarily similarly... and assuming that, you can set your picture profiles in infinite ways and paint your images pretty much exactly as you like... which I think you'll find much better than the "default" settings.

For my money, anything in the "C" line looks much better than any of the Canon DSLRs, if you are going for a cinematic and filmic look... and they certainly are infinitely easier to use. The DSLRs can give great images, but they natively have a very very "DSLR look" to them, and don't much resemble a true cinematic image (including the look of real film, if that's what you are going for). And... there is a Canon DSLR picture profile that you can click to in the C100/C300/C500 if you ever want to match the camera with a 5D or whatever, and yep it does look pretty much exactly like that.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Marios Karageorgiou
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 2, 2015 at 10:00:17 pm

Hi Todd,
Thank you very much for fast and very helpful answer.
In the Web TV Im working right now Im using filmic look and thats why the team which has only DSLRs shoot with flat profiles.
In weekends many times I do events/weddings so again a Run n Gun camera like C100 would be amazing.
So from the time a Canon DSLR and a C100 record at the same frame rate for example 23.976 which is progressive, is there no difference
in the way these cameras sensors process the images?
Last, is there any other option in this budget (5k) and similar to C100 and ready to go?
Thanks.


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Todd Terry
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 2, 2015 at 10:04:09 pm

[Marios Karageorgiou] " is there no difference
in the way these cameras sensors process the images?"


There probably, is, but I'm no tech guy so I couldn't say much about the technicalities of how the images are processed.



[Marios Karageorgiou] "Last, is there any other option in this budget (5k) and similar to C100 and ready to go?"

Again, there might be, but I really don't know what is out there. I've shot almost exclusively with Canon cameras for the past, oh, probably 15 years or so, so I'm pretty partial to what they have available.

Maybe someone in one of the non-Canon forums can be more help there.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Marios Karageorgiou
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 3, 2015 at 12:09:18 am

Thanks again Todd,
It was very helpful to know what to choose from a man that has work with the Cinema line of Canon Cameras.
I will finally buy the C100 Mark II.To tell you the truth I had already took the decision but I wanted to hear from a Pro filmmaker that has work with these cameras, his opinion.
Thanks again.


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Craig Alan
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 6:10:44 pm

If it's not a done deal Check out the black magic ursa. The ef model uses canon lenses. Not sure why you got rid of your 5d lenses. They work on any ef mount cam and for that matter the 5d is a great still cam that comes in handy for lots of shoots. But money is money. If you really want cinema look not only do you need to set profiles in cam but you'll need to learn how to grade particularly if you are shooting raw.

All that said the ursa is 16 pounds and may not be the best choice for run and gun. I think canon if they haven't already will. Answer the competition with their next update of the c line of cams. Hold on to your lenses. That's what will travel from cam to cam.

Another point about the look of footage often overlooked is lighting. I really think most of the look is how you light your subject. Trying to compare run and gun shots to movies with high end cameras and a full pro crew is just not reasonable no matter how good the new sensors. Speaking of which the ursa was designed with a sensor that can be updated. Of course who knows what that will mean by the time a new sensor comes out. Worth the cost? But it's an interesting feature. Much of the weight btw is it comes with features that are normally additional gear: three monitors including a broadcast monitor that is quite good fir framing and even color. It also comes with a copy of resolve thus your grading color correction software.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Marios Karageorgiou
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 16, 2015 at 8:21:33 pm

Hi Craig and thank you for your helpful advice.
Im still searching to find C100 MK II in stock in my country or in Europe but still can't find it.I sold my lenses also so I can have enough money to make the move to a Cinema Camcorder and also to invest for start in different lenses for the S35 sensor that will help better for run and gun situations.In reality if I had enough budget to make the move without selling my existing equipment then I would do it with not second thought.I do colour correction/grading for a web tv channel last year and I have done a few personal projects working with Raw video with ML installed in my 5d3.To tell you the truth Im already missing Raw and the huge information every frame was carrying making colour grading a Heaven with so many possibilities.Take a look at one video when ML did the the trick in the beginning .Of course the S35 sensor of C100 has much more DR, sharpness, better image quality but it will never be like Raw in 5d3.That said if C100 MK II had at least 10 bit input or at least output with clean hdmi then I would never be able to think of buying it again and again.. it would be a perfect camera! Its really shame to have only 256 shades per channel and to come across facing it in a camera that has so many potentials and great image quality but Canon doesn't give it because it wants to protect the bigger brothers of Cinema Line.Its really a shame!
I thought many times to go for the Blackmagic URSA camera but without being bad, I never liked the colours of Blackmagic cameras.You hear so many ppl today to talk about tech specs of each model, for example the a7s or the Gh4 but never hear form someone talks about the colours.. and in my opinion the colours of Canon Cameras and Dslrs are the best.Only Arri has more magic in their colour science they use in their cameras.Finally I really need a Run and Gun camera cause occasionally Im doing weddings/events and also need a tool with very good low light performance for documentary work.I hope in the future Canon address a few things about C100 with a firmware maybe.. who knows..


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Craig Alan
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 6:23:28 am

Well the price seems to be falling for digital cinema quality cams. Hard for me to judge without looking at side by side comparisons with the same scene and light and comparable grading for each camera's footage.
Your Canon footage link does seem to have vibrant colors. But again without a side by side its hard to tell. I have ordered an URSA and accessories to help use both it and the 5D mark III for video: follow focus, door dolly, and a couple of canon lenses. 50mm cinema prime and a couple of L series photo zooms that can be used with either cam. When i was researching this choice I would have loved to get the Canon EOS C500 4K Cinema Camera (EF Lens Mount). But it was out of my range and I thought the ursa was a great package for cinema style shots. I am shooting mostly in a studio with lots of lights. I certainly considered the c100. I liked the fact that black magic seems to be interested in upgrading their cameras with both firmware and replaceable parts. Again I see the lenses as a longer term investment. The fact that the ursa has an ef mount made me comfortable with the ursa even if it gets replaced in a couple of years down the line.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Craig Alan
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 17, 2015 at 6:48:40 am



Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Canon 5D Mark III/70D, Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV40, Sony Z7U/VX2000/PD170; FCP 6 certified; FCP X write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Marios Karageorgiou
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Feb 18, 2015 at 12:57:52 pm

Its really a bargain for the specs URSA has... really really amazing.Canon sadly doesn't provide big innovations in terms of technology anymore but it has very well built cameras which can produce very nice pictures and also an amazing collection of EF lenses which do everything easier for a cinematographer.The review you sent me also was very interesting... if BM solves a few bugs this would be an amazing camera with so many tools that it has on the body and with the amazing 12 bit 4k Raw it provides and the EF mount.Im waiting to see your work when you get it in your hands Craig and I wish you enjoy it in every section of your needs.
Best Regards and thanks again for the help.


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Marios Karageorgiou
Re: C100/C100 Mark II camcorder thoughts.. coming from a DSLR background.
on Mar 9, 2015 at 7:12:13 pm

Hello again,
I just got in my hands my C100 MK II and I can say that Im really excited with this little powerful tool!
I received 3 days ago and since then Im testing it all the time in different aspects and I have a few questions to ask that came after using it.
First of all Im from Greece (Europe) which means that I'm in Pal territory and I was surprised when I saw that in Pal mode (50hz) the camera doesn't provide 24p.I did a research on the web and I saw that 24p actually is from NTSC region but my 5d3 had this option in both PAL/NTSC.
Second I plugged my camera via Hdmi with my monitor Dell U2413 set to SRGB to test how accurate are the colours of my IPS panel comparing to OLED camera's monitor.Then by watching at the same time my monitor and the OLED camera;s monitor I pushed the iso in different high values to test how performs in low light conditions and I figured out that at 20000 ISO the camera performed amazingly well.So I took off my SD to test it in FCPX with neat video to see how NR performs with this camera.For my surprise the footage at my pc (same monitor) was much much noisier... at least twice against when I was looking it on the same monitor through HDMI straight from the camera.
Finally I would like to ask if C line series suffer from magenta colours as I can't figure out if my monitor needs calibration or the camera produces much more magenta colours through the rest.
After all I can't believe how sharp the camera is and how beautiful images it produces.DSLR world for me now is only a good memory.. these cameras play at a very different level.


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