FORUMS: list search recent posts

Should I still get the XF105?

COW Forums : Canon Cameras

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Mike Caruana
Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 29, 2013 at 4:37:09 pm

Almost two years ago I was considering an XF105 but did not pull the trigger since the projects I wanted to do were delayed that long. Now I'm about to start and wondering if it's still the right camera and what else I should be looking at.

My projects involve 80% Green Screen work at a short distance (the room is only 14' long), so pulling keys will be one of the most important aspects. The other 20% will be on the go shooting, mostly street interviews.

I initially gave high consideration to the XF105 due to its extreme portability and the capability to set it up in the studio and output via SDI direct to my PC (system has 6 drives in RAID 0 for capture, already tested and fast enough. Would capture, then backup).

Now the BMCC & BMPC are thrown into the mix due to their portability and 4:4:4 depth which might make keying a bit easier.

Also looked at the XA25 but I still think the XF105 would be better for the job.

What else should I consider and what would you pick? Going to pull the trigger by early next week at the latest, budget is 4K max.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, the 5DMKIII with ML Raw hack would also be a consideration (I'd be willing to part with more $$$ since I would have an excellent stills camera to boot) but not sure how mature it is. Last I read, you can only get 12 minutes per card and no HDMI Raw out. My recordings are over an hour, sometimes longer, so switching cards while waiting for improvement would have to be considered.


Return to posts index

Al Bergstein
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 30, 2013 at 3:18:53 pm

Mike, there's nothing wrong with the XF105, I had one and sold it a month or so back. The 4:2:2 is great, it's low light ability is a bit weak, and the single sensor is not quite as sharp as the XF300, with it's three sensors. For interviews on the street, it's fine, but to get an out of focus background you need to move back and shoot with telephoto. But it has all the controls and XLRs that you could need.

While the BMCC is obviously a great camera if you want/need 4:4:4 I have no intention of buying one anytime soon, as the issues of file size, compute power, and tools are a bit bleeding edge for my system, and frankly, my end product is almost exclusively sent to the web and DVD. If I was thinking of shooting theatrical or for large screen at film fests, I might consider it. But I also have a 5Dmkiii and it produces fabulous quality, and with the RAW ability of ML you might look into it. Good news is that it shoots 29 minutes now, not 12 (not sure about with ML).

This video is what I consider to be a decent example of one I shot with the 5Dmkiii, using a wired lav mic plugged directly into the camera, and prime lens (28, 50).
You can see that you get it all, pretty dang good quality rendered out to Vimeo, decent sound, and DOF. I didn't do a lot of color correction as this is a part of a larger video I shot that will be corrected better later.

Ultimately, if you could afford it, the C300 is a great option, or even a C100 with a ninja. I think the C100 is one of the best cameras I've ever shot with, for what I do which is primarily docs and doc like corporate. It's picture quality is far better than the xf105, and even better than the xf305 for many shoots.

Al


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 30, 2013 at 9:12:00 pm

Great video, Al!

You presented the subject beautifully and I found it fascinating.

I love documentaries that allow the subject to tell the story and allow the audience to feel they've seen something authentic rather than an op ed.

Where can I see the rest of it?

I'm researching the same kind of decision. I need a DSLR for both photo and video. I'm new to this form factor.

How much control do you have over depth of field with these cams during production? In the past that meant: could you achieve a narrow depth of field? Obviously DSLRs excel at this. My concern now is in the opposite direction. Is it possible to achieve a large DOF without needing a ton of extra lighting and overly large F-stops.

Also what is your thoughts on camera choice given the investment in lenses? I'd want a lens mount where whatever lens we buy would remain usable into the future when we update to a new cam. I wouldn't mind being able to use them on different cams as well. We have a Sony Z7U that has a 1/3-in. bayonet lens mount. Although the HDV format is not so great, we can attach a Ki Pro to the cam and record in Pro Res 422.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index


Al Bergstein
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 31, 2013 at 3:57:18 am

Thanks Craig. The rest of this project will be released in September on Vimeo.

The xf105 can give you large DOF with no problem. That's what small sensors do best. The biggest problem is low light. They just can't do well without a lot of gain. For low light I always shoot some other kind of camera, whether 5D, C100 or C300.

I have to say, that given your requirements, you should either choose a Canon camera that uses EF lenses, and stick with it, or get a Panasonic, etc. I have stuck with Canon. So I can interchange 7D, 5D, C100, C300 and C500 if I choose to rent those cameras. It's a compelling arguement. Of course Panny and Sony also have similar ranges. It's just that I've always been partial to Canon.

Some folks are raving about the Sony FS100 and up. I found that ND filters are a must, and the lack of them on the Sony forced me to the C100. I would love to have super slow mo, but frankly, rarely use it.

Best of luck.

al

Al


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 31, 2013 at 9:22:59 am

Thanks Al,

We use Pana P2 cams for camcorder factor and really like the quality. But I was asking about wider DOF using the DSLRs. We are considering the 5D or if budget doesn't allow the 60D for a photo/video cam and was asking if you can get a wider DOF with it?

Also what would you suggest as a kit for it?

Specifics on:
Lenses,
follow focus,
mat box,
media cards,
etc.: whatever has come in handy that you learn with experience.

I never have a standing budget so when I order a piece of gear I need to have the whole kit. We have a pretty decent set of lights - kino flo-s and fresnels, and a LED lit Cyc wall which has been great for photo/video shoots.

We also use Canon HV40s for beginner cams and loaners and they do pretty well but are getting old as is tape and HDV.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Al Bergstein
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 31, 2013 at 5:51:47 pm

Al says: I'm no expert, but here's been my experience.

See inline below:

You said:
We use Pana P2 cams for camcorder factor and really like the quality. But I was asking about wider DOF using the DSLRs. We are considering the 5D or if budget doesn't allow the 60D for a photo/video cam and was asking if you can get a wider DOF with it?

Also what would you suggest as a kit for it?
AL says: Wide DOF can be achieved but needs proper F stop to accomplish. So you need light. I've found, in lower lit situations I often boost the ISO to get my deep DOF for group shots. It's doable, just takes more thought.

Specifics on:
Lenses,
If starting out I would get the Canon 14mm, the 24-105 and the 70-200. That covers the waterfront. For specific theatrical work, I'd add an 85 mm.

follow focus,
There are lots of choices. Depends on budget.

mat box,
Stay away from cheap india knock offs. I suggest Chrozial.

media cards,
I use nothing but Sandisk Extreme Pros. Have had others fail.

etc.: whatever has come in handy that you learn with experience.

I never have a standing budget so when I order a piece of gear I need to have the whole kit. We have a pretty decent set of lights - kino flo-s and fresnels, and a LED lit Cyc wall which has been great for photo/video shoots.
Al says: Sounds like you have the lights. I now almost exclusely use 1x1s with batteries. Really makes a huge difference in the field.

We also use Canon HV40s for beginner cams and loaners and they do pretty well but are getting old as is tape and HDV.

--------------------------------------------------

Al


Return to posts index


Craig Alan
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Aug 31, 2013 at 8:57:45 pm

Thanks Al,

By 1x1 I assume you mean LEDs? They are really starting to take off. Yesterday I saw what looked like a diva lite-completely filled with LEDs. Dimmer did not seem to change color temp. And 'bulbs' were shock proof plastic. I didn't ask if it could run off batteries, but most likely yes.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

Al Bergstein
Re: Should I still get the XF105?
on Sep 1, 2013 at 4:13:40 am

The Lightpanel 1x1 with battery has changed my filming a lot, and for the better.It is amazing what having a portable light like that can do to spark up a scene. I still have a lot of 110 based lights, but find I keep them for special situations. I could probably sell them and not think twice about it.

Add to that a DSLR for low light performance and it is a long ways towards handling most situations. I always put the light case it in the van, and usually end up using it. It can even help to some degree in bright sunlight. I'll have a bunch of new work up on the web by the end of September that will be with it in use. I'm still getting used to it, and it's not a panacea, but for a small operation, it is one of the most significant tools I've added to the kit. While expensive, it has already paid for itself, IMHO.

Al


Return to posts index

Craig Alan
accessories
on Sep 2, 2013 at 6:22:13 am

Thanks Al,

Trying to put package together. I see different lenses at different price point for each of these mm/ranges.

Is this the right 24-105? This comes as part of a kit some of which is ok stuff and some of which is less than the best. The san disc for example is not the pro model.


Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS EF USM AF Lens
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/397662-USA/Canon_0344B002AA_24_105mm_...

part of this kit:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/847546-REG/Canon_5260B009_EOS_5D_Mark...

It's about $600 savings for just the lens which is listed at $1150. But there is another 24-105 at like twice that.

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]