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Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems

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Andree Franks
Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 17, 2010 at 5:49:06 pm

Hey!

Yeah, I already posted something similare but the thread went under in the list.

First of we have the H1 setup to do chroma key footage.
Camera is connected over SDI to AJA Ki Pro which as from Canon should be HD uncompressed!
The camera was used in Auto and manual mode with the following settings.
AE shift 0
Gain 0 and or -3
Auto focus
Stabelizer on the Lens is off

The environment which I think has nothing to do with following issue, is 4 point lighting.
Two for the green screen and 2 for the subject.
The footage turns out grainy and the key can be a pain do to the grain.

Also I noticed when the magnified button is pressed for the EVF the capture is also magnified!

Is this normal? Can't be? Is there a setting I missed?


Thanks any help on the grain and the EVF magnified mode.

At the moment we are not happy with this 9000 dollar disappointment. :(


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Todd Terry
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 17, 2010 at 8:58:24 pm

Not sure about the grain issue, but yes.... when the focus assist magnification button is pressed, the viewfinder and all of the outputs get the magnified image.

That's usually not a issue of course, as it normally is impossible to roll tape while in the "magnified" mode... or rather, as soon as you hit the trigger the magnification reverts to normal and can't be re-activated as long as the camera is rolling.

The kink is, you're not rolling tape at all apparently, but recording to an external source. Ergo, the camera doesn't know it shouldn't allow the magnification.

I do not know any way to disable the magnification. Best best is to just remember not to press the magnify button while recording.

I'm not sure about the grain... it shoudn't be grainy. I'm certain you haven't bought a $9000 paperweight... I use the H1 daily and it's one of my all-time favorite cameras and have never had any issues like that. I think you just must have some non-opitmal internal settings, or are getting noise introduced somewhere down the chain (maybe with AJA?). Although I don't know where the problem lies. Try shooting some footage to tape, then injesting it via firewire rather than the live HD-SDI and see if the grain is the same... just as a comparison test.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Brian Louis
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 18, 2010 at 1:11:36 am

[Todd Terry] "you're not rolling tape at all apparently, but recording to an external source. Ergo, the camera doesn't know it shouldn't allow the magnification"
If the magnifacation is on the grain will also be magnified by the same ammount.


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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 18, 2010 at 11:39:37 am

Thanks for the Quick Answers!

Okay I can live with the magnification but the noise or grain is not expectable.
Noise/grain is present magnified or not. I will do a test recording on to tape and see if there is a difference.

If anybody know of a setting that I missed I would be thankful or any tips.



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Brian Louis
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 18, 2010 at 10:39:43 pm

Is the grain present in other video like a daylight shot?


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William Busby
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 18, 2010 at 11:23:42 pm

My bet is auto gain was active without knowing.


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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 22, 2010 at 9:02:27 am

No the Gain was and is on 0!
Green Noise in 100%
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4028/samplehdscale100.mp4

Green Noise in 200%
http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2879/samplehdscale200.mp4

I will also shoot a message on the AJA Ki Pro board maybe its the device itself?

Thanks



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William Busby
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 22, 2010 at 9:16:11 am

That may be, but even if it's set to 0 or even a negative number if you have the auto gain switch active it obviously wouldn't make a difference. Are you positive that's not/wasn't active?


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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Oct 22, 2010 at 10:20:27 am

The Gain is on 0-+18,+36 and is set over the EVF 0.0.
Is this considered as a value and did I miss a setting on the Camera.

After giving a good look in the EVF over the Magnified function you can see the grain. :(



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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Jan 1, 2011 at 2:15:02 pm

"That may be, but even if it's set to 0 or even a negative number if you have the auto gain switch active it obviously wouldn't make a difference. Are you positive that's not/wasn't active?"

Which auto gain switch do you mean? Out side on the casing or in the Menu?



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William Busby
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Jan 1, 2011 at 9:40:41 pm

I don't own the XLH1 and am only familiar with the XHA1 (the auto gain switch is separate from the 3 selectable settings switch on the side of the XHA1 body). I do however have a pdf manual of the XLH1 and I've noticed the auto gain switch is integrated with with the selected gain settings so I guess my advise earlier is moot. However... I believe if you have the power dial set to anything other than TV, AV, or M that gives you manual controls, auto gain will be active regardless what you have your gain set to.


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Todd Terry
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Jan 1, 2011 at 11:51:07 pm

I think William is right...

What main "mode" are you shooting in? That is, to what position is the big main round switch/dial on the left (port) side of the camera set? That's the "power dial" he mentioned.

If you have it set to "M" (full manual), you will be able to set the gain dial to "0" or whichever position you want. BUT... if you set it to one of the various "auto" modes (such as the green square with the rounded corners, the one that looks like a little TV screen), then that could override your other settings (depending on which mode you select) and might be cranking the gain up because you do not have enough light.

Even if you are attempting to manually set the gain yourself, the big round dial/switch (the big master "ON/OFF" switch) overrides ANYTHING else (except for the lens settings, autofocus and stabilizer).

I'm betting you were not shooting in full manual mode, ergo the gain was being increased without your knowledge. When shooting greenscreen work especially, I would always recommend shooting in the FULL auto mode so that you can (and have to) set all the parameters yourself.

There was also discussion as whether the AJA board was introducing gain. Attach an external monitor to the camera as well (directly to the camera, not to the computer). If you see grain on that monitor, you can rule out the AJA board as the problem source.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Jan 2, 2011 at 12:03:23 am

I would always recommend shooting in the FULL auto mode so that you can (and have to) set all the parameters yourself.
You mean full manual mode so I can set all the parameters myself?

No, No the footage was taking (samples above) in the manual mode.
So there is only one gain adjustment on the camera the round dial nob?
After my break I will sit down and check the settings and do some more tests.



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Todd Terry
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Jan 2, 2011 at 12:39:02 am

Yes, you are right of course... my brain said one thing and my fingers typed another. Manual, of course. I always shoot almost everything in full manual mode. Sorry for the confusion.

I was thinking that maybe you were not shooting in manual mode since you noted in your very first original post that the AE shift was set to "0." If you were shooting manual it wouldn't matter what the AE shift was set to, since in full manual mode it is disabled and has no effect whatsoever. Since you gave us its setting, I assumed you were in one of the auto modes since those are the only modes that the AE shift affects.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Feb 14, 2011 at 10:01:25 am

A little update...

I send the Camera to a Canon service center and it they can not find any issues.
His excuse was cause it is a NTSC region it will not be as good as the PAL region. But this will not cause a noise level as it does.

Anyhow I will be getting the Camera back tomorrow with the footage the service center captured.
So I am guessing the footage look like my then camera a high noise tolerance. (Yeah we should have purchased the Panasonic AG-AF100)

At the moment I am hopping it was a setting that i jacked up that they might have reseted!

Will keep up to post if any issues will come down my time line...



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Andree Franks
Re: Canon XL H1 HD issues/problems
on Mar 18, 2011 at 2:05:20 pm

Guess who is back!

Okay like I said Canon can't find anything wrong with the Camera.
So here I am posting a screenshot of some footage that I took this morning, excuse the fog but Theoi Ouranioi did not hear me.

Well I see some noise, grain or compression... how ever you want to call this.
I just like know if you guys camera also produces the same quality?

Thank you!

http://img847.imageshack.us/f/screenshot20110318at145.png/



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