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Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?

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George Mandl
Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Jun 10, 2010 at 4:44:55 pm

Hello Everyone,
I'm working as an assistant editor on a feature being primarily shot on two RED cameras, with the Canon 7D being used as a third camera. The DP is insistent on finishing in 4k, and so we're trying to figure out the best workflow and codec for up-resing the 7D files to maintain the best range and quality for DI. Has anyone had to do this?

We are working in Final Cut Pro, and are cutting the RED files as ProRes HQ (and the RED workflow is all good) - so our sequences are set up that way.

My thought is that we have two options:
#1 To up-res every on of our 1920x1080 h264 clips from the 7D into 4k files that carry the same timecode (I believe they all start at 00:00:00:00). Then from there, we would downconvert to ProRes HQ, and be able to edit without constant rendering in the timelines. This would provide us with a full set of 4K files - the only downside I see is needing alot of drive space.

#2 Would be to transcode straight from the H264 files directly to ProRes HQ, and deal with up-resing just the selected shots on the back-end.

If anyone has any insight on this, it would be much appreciated.

-george


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Richard van den Boogaard
Re: Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Jun 10, 2010 at 10:09:20 pm

IMHO - this boils down to blowing up pixels that were shot at half the resolution you want to edit at. Generally not a good idea... especially since the footage was compressed to begin with (as opposed to RED's RAW). So you would technically never be "finishing" in true 4K.

Richard van den Boogaard
cameraman / editor / video marketing consultant

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George Mandl
Re: Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Jun 11, 2010 at 1:37:22 am

Yes, I do understand the ramifications of what I'm saying. That said, this is the situation I'm in. Its likely that the master will be 2k or HD, but the DP (who is highly experienced in doing DIs) insists that if we start with 4k, we have the best chance of matching the cameras together and getting a homogenous look.

So although I agree that its not going to be a true 4k DI, its a starting point for us, and will help our DP to get the look he wants before we squash it all back to 2k.

What I'm looking for is the best up-res solution. I understand that its not ideal.


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Matias Rispau
Re: Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Jul 13, 2010 at 3:36:11 pm

I recomend you to make 2 versions: one in 4k to match the RED footage and one in 2K. When moving all the comp to the 2k change the 4k for the 2k versions and aply all the changes that has been made on it.

If you up-convert 1080P material to 4K and then later down-convert to 2K you are ganna lose some spatial resolution in the process.


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Davd Keator
Re: Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Dec 8, 2011 at 6:48:33 pm

I up-resed to 4k only once years ago, to do some special affects when Sony Vegas first supported 4k. I up-resed Sony Ex-1 footage. Shockingly it does work, not great but it works better than Native. It is ashame that you are using the lossy codec of Pro-res HQ. I'm pretty sure Apple-X support native 4k and Cineform now. If you can use the Cineform codec, finish in that you can maintain the 4k all the way to the end, and you WILL be much happier for it.

President: http://www.VertexMedia.com


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Todd Terry
Re: Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Dec 8, 2011 at 7:12:21 pm

Since they are insistent about editing in 4K... personally I would up-res to 4K... use that footage to do the edit... and then make a judgment as to the quality of the up-resed shots once they are seen in context, after you view the whole project "dumbed down" to whatever downconverted format the finished project is. If the final project is downconverted to HD, for example, you might want to go in and replace the 7D shots with something closer to the native resolution, rather than shots that have jumped through so many hoops up-converting and then down-converting again.

The saving grace is, as you pointed out, that although they are insisting on cutting it in 4K, that it's really unlikely that anyone will ever see the finished cut in 4K. I'm not sure what the project is or the end "viewing venue"... but even if it is theatrical, 4K digital projectors are not the norm... 2K or even 1080 projectors are still far more common. And even with almost unlimited-budget big-time Hollywood originated-on-real-film features, the DI is almost always 2K.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Todd Terry
Re: Up-res Canon 7D material to 4K?
on Dec 8, 2011 at 7:14:02 pm

Good lord... I didn't realize I was replying to a year-and-a-half old thread... I was just responding to a new post from today.

I'm sure this issue has loooooooooooong since been resolved. Hopefully.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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