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Need to find a camera

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Nathan Trenkamp
Need to find a camera
on Apr 28, 2010 at 3:45:55 pm

I've been on the lookout for a HD camera. The Canon 7D really caught my attention until I discovered that it can only store 12 minute clips. Since, I plan to shoot interviews, this doesn't seem like it would work. I found a camcorder, the Canon VIXIA HF S200 Flash memory Camcorder, for $1200. This camera records up to 3 hours of footage onto a memory card however, there doesn't seem to be a way to input professional audio. Plus, I'm a little weary getting a 1 pound camcorder. Is there anything out there that shoots prolonged HD footage onto a memory card with professional audio input all for under 4K? Maybe, I'm dreaming, but thought I would ask. Thanks in advance.


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Josh Buchanan
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 28, 2010 at 4:29:04 pm

If you can shoot in 720p I think the 7D can shoot for 30 minutes if that helps abit. But if you are looking for pro audio inputs, you can get a Zoom H4n, which has both XLR and 1/4 audio inputs on the bottom. And can do 4 channel audio recording with the 2 mics on the Zoom and 2 plugged in. And that runs for about $300, and then you can get a mic so thats about maybe $600ish depending on the mic, and then you just sync it in post with the video. So if you get the Zoom all you got to do is find a camera with the best video quality you can get for your budget. I think Sony is coming out or came out with a new line of HD camcorders recently that looked pretty good, and Canon had a little tiny camera that was pretty sweet. But not sure. You could also look at a few Go Pro HD cameras, for like those side shots, a few secondary cameras, to go with your main one. And those go for about $250 with a cool suction cup mount with it. But I hope this helps you out.

Josh


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Nathan Trenkamp
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 28, 2010 at 5:36:19 pm

Yes, that helps out a lot. Thank you. I think I can compromise to 720p for interviews and up it to full 1080 for other videos. That extra 13 minutes would make a big difference! So, that Zoom works for just about any camera? Thanks again.





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Nathan Trenkamp
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 28, 2010 at 6:11:01 pm

Just to clarify to whoever reads this thread, even if you shoot at 720p, the Canon 7D can still only store up to 12 minutes of footage at a time.






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Josh Buchanan
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 28, 2010 at 8:39:44 pm

Oh sorry for the miss information on the 7D, I wasn't 100% sure on it. But yea the Zoom works with anything, even by itself. It's a separate device.


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Nathan Trenkamp
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 28, 2010 at 9:31:24 pm

Oh yea, no worries. I just wanted to let everyone else know that read this thread. Canon is in the works of making a 64Gb memory card however. Which, I would assume up the file sizes.



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Norman Willis
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 29, 2010 at 4:26:13 am

Hi Nathan.

Yeah, the T2i would be great, except for the 12 minute limit. That, and both it and the 7D have overheating issues, and can shut down on you without much notice.

For long presentations, interviews and things I have two HF S10's, and I input pro audio via a juicedLink CX431.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&Ntt=juicedlink%20cx431&Q...

It works really well. They also make 2-channel models. That makes a nice all-in-one you can carry around on a tripod, or a monopod if you want to run-and-gun. You might want to use it with a mic like this one:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=...

As an alternative, Rode makes a Videomic that is good for short-range shotgun work, and does not need an XLR adapter:

http://www.amazon.com/Rode-VideoMic-Directional-Shotgun-Mount/dp/B0007U9SOC...

I just got my Zoom H4N, and it is much better than the H4 I used to have (don't get an H4. Get an H4N). It will also record .wav, in addition to .mp3.

It is always good to have a backup. I am planning to mount the Azden or Rode Videomic (I cannot decide which) on the camera, to pipe that straight to the SDHC card as a backup, and then record my better microphone to the H4N.

I hope that helps.




Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Nathan Trenkamp
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 29, 2010 at 2:34:26 pm

Thanks Norman, I did hear about the overheating issue with the 7D which would definitely not work for interviews. Is there a particular camera that you would recommend for long format for around 3 to 4k?

Also, for the shotgun mic. Would I get as good or better sound out of that as a lav mic when shooting, say a two person interview? Thanks.

Nathan



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Norman Willis
Re: Need to find a camera
on Apr 29, 2010 at 6:01:37 pm

Hey Nathan.

Great questions. In order to answer this, I am going to have to back way up.

I just got my 5D MkII, but have not had time to experiment with it yet. It is supposed to suffer less from overheating issues than the 7D and/or T2i/550, but still has some. They make case-mod cooling units, but there can also be questions of condensation, which ruins the internal circuitry (and also voids the warranty :(

Even with an RC-6 remote control, one still has to 'start-stop', which not only puts a jump cut in your timeline, but also kills your interview (because you have to worry about timing the start/stop, rather than just focus on your interview).

HDV is always an option, but I don't want to go back to tape. I think AVCHD is a way better option.

I don't know your budget, but if it were me, I would get a Zoom H4N like Josh advised, and a Canon HF S11/21, making sure I had two SDHC card slots, because you don't want to use the onboard memory, except as a failsafe. I had one SDHC card fail, and all I had to do was just replace the card, which is a lot better than having to stop the shoot and send the unit in to B&H for service.

One gets 2hrs 55mins recording per one 32GB Class 6 SDHC card on full quality. I don't know how long of interviews you want to do, but I cannot imagine running an interview for longer than that without taking a break long enough to get a drink of water, and change the card/s.

If I could afford it I would also pop for a Convergent Designs Nano-Flash unit and capture the uncompressed signal off of the HDMI Out port (which is pre-compression).

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/600482-REG/Convergent_Design_NANOFLAS...

The glass on the HF S10/11/20/21 is excellent, and I think that will probably give the best bang for the buck; and maybe even one of the best pictures available until they come out with the new hybrid DSLR's next year (at which time the Nano-Flash is still useful). With glass that good, I would recommend the B+W 58mm UV filter, rather than the cheaper Hoya (as why put a lousy contact lens on an eye that good?).

If I had $7k for two Nano Flash units with CF cards I would spring for it right now. That is the route I wanted to go; and the only reason I got the 5D MkII instead of two Nano Flash units to hang off of my two HF S10's is because I needed a 16-35mm super-wide angle lens in order to get full-body shots at 7 feet to camera.

As far as shotguns, I don't know how one mic will cover two people unless you are sitting very close together (which in this culture I would think would be uncomfortable). Either you would need two shotguns, or two lav mics either on XLR cable, or, say, on Shure SLX wireless body packs (which I would think would be a much better option). Be sure to get good mics. They make a difference. I would recommend a Countryman B3, if you can afford it. Be sure to get the component that matches to the wireless you use (i.e. Shure SLX).

I hope that helps.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Brent Dunn
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 1, 2010 at 5:02:15 am

For a tape based cam for 3 grand. Canon Xh-A1
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/buy/Pro-Camcorders-ENG-/ci/1881/N/4294545123

Panasonic has a great AVCHD cam that records to SD cards and genlocks
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/575992-REG/Panasonic_AG_HMC150PJU_AG_...

I would never, ever, use a DSLR for my main cam. Too many issues and lack of controls. You need to get a video camera. Also, you may think your saving money, but factor in the cost of lens, audio recorder, etc... and you could have purchased a nice video cam.

When I bought my Canon 5D, I ended up with over 5 Grand in it after just buying two lenses, extra battery, audio accessories, etc.

If you want a work horse that will give you the best of all these, then get a Sony Ex-1, the standard in broadcast & television. (and ex3) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/656719-REG/Sony_PMW_EX1R_PMW_EX1R_XDC...

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Video.com

Sony EX-1, V1U
Cannon 5D Mark II
Cannon 7D
Mac Pro Tower, Quad Core,
with Final Cut Studio

HP i7 Quad laptop
w/ Adobe CS-4 Production Suite, After Effects
& CS-5 Production Suite. Window's 7

Manfrotto Tripod's & Heads



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Bob Dix
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 3, 2010 at 10:34:32 pm

Hi Brent,

You are probably right, camcorders give better control.However, we used a Canon 5D Mark II in Egypt and New Zealand the imagery,. still and video was some of the best in 20 years in photography & video (using a RODE Video Stereo Mike for stereo sound).A 16Gb Card is needed for about an hour but, we still use 4Gb ,as we shoot in 4-5 sec clips anyhow and then change the Sandisk Extreme IV 38mbps card,as we are basically still photographers and use a Canon HV20 for back up , we would not go back to camcorders.

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Norman Willis
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 4, 2010 at 1:53:02 am

Hey Bob.

>>still and video was some of the best in 20 years in photography & video (using a RODE Video Stereo Mike for stereo sound).

How do you like that Rode Videomic?

And what made your decision to select the Rode Videomic?

Would you happen to know how it might compare to a Rode NTG-2?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/481528-REG/Rode__NTG_2_Condenser_Shot...

Thanks much.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


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Bob Dix
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 4, 2010 at 3:04:45 am

http://www.rodemic.com/microphone.php?product=M1

Check above out, there may be a link to test on U-Tube? However, checked out a Steinhausen but, thought Rode had the edge and is good to get rid of wind noise.My son also uses on professional shoots, cannot fault it after 6 months use. A test of the Rode NTG-2 may be on web site ? The RODE Stereo VideoMic Stereo X/Y Condenser seems to be more expensive than NTG-2 which seems to be more for the Zoom ? If you use it on the 7D or 5D make sure you turn it on, otherwise it could be embrassing -NO AUDIO because it only shows on Start up for levels in 5D and not when operating. Has been very good on Panasonic 3CCD and Canon HV 20 High definition.

Good luck

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Bob Dix
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 4, 2010 at 3:20:39 am

Try this i have just found it .








Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Bob Dix
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 4, 2010 at 3:25:03 am










Opps , the






D



Did not download?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1IMFWx2Dyg

Try again ?

Freelance Imaging & Video
AUSTRALIA


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Christian McCarty
Re: Need to find a camera
on May 10, 2010 at 4:03:38 am

The 7D is a good camera. I know there was a comparison test between the the canon cameras, nikon, panasonic VS 35mm film from Kodak and Fuji.

If I were going to get a HD camera for doco's, I would very very seriously consider the Canon 5D/7D. We just shot a complete corporate video on the 5D and it was AMAZING!!

Previously I had used the JVC GY series of cameras at 720p...but the amount of stuffing around turned me off film making for a while.

The Canon cameras have reignited the fire. The quality (1080p @ 24fps), the lens choice and cost of glass(L series 17-40mm is around $1000 Au - AWESOME), solid state recording and my favorite...portability! It's so easy to use, pack up, store and take care of.

I have attached the link to the film vs SLR test. Check it out.



Christian


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