FORUMS: list search recent posts

7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?

COW Forums : Canon Cameras

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Norman Willis
7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 4, 2010 at 10:14:10 pm

I want to film for broadcast TV, so my two HF S10's (in AVCHD) no longer cut it. I plan to film primarily in studio with a maximum target size of home theater (8-12 foot screens), but I may want to do silver screen in the future. I may also want to take the camera into the field in the future (probably not in extreme weather), but at least for the next few years I plan to film all in studio.

I want to do full-body shots on a white screen, but my studio space is only 16 feet long. I went to the local store and looked at a T2i with a stock 18-55mm lens. With the lens on widest (18mm) I had to stand 8 feet from the camera to get a full body shot (and no jumping jacks :)

I am ruling out the T2i at this time because it overheats, so as I see it, my best logical choices are:

a) a reduced-frame EOS 7D with a kit 18-135mm lens;
b) a reduced-frame EOS 7D with a 16-35mm L series wide angle lens;
c) a full-frame EOS 5D Mk II with a 24-105mm L series lens;
d) a full-frame EOS 5D Mk II with a 16-35mm L series wide angle lens.

I am on a budget, so the T2i price tag would have been very welcome, but that's that, and this is this. If I got a full body shot on the T2i at 18mm at 8 feet from the camera lens, I am assuming that I am going to be able to get a full body shot either with the kit 18-135mm lens on a 7D, or with the L series 16-35mm lens. The kit 18-135mm lens is cheaper, but is that going to give me a picture I am going to be happy with?

Since the 5D Mk II is full frame (and not reduced by 1.6x, like the 7D), I took the 18mm focal length of the T2i, and multiplied it by 1.6x, and got 25.6mm. Am I correct in assuming that the 24-105mm L series lens would give me a just-slightly-wider angle on a 5D Mk II, such that I would still be able to get a full body shot at right around 8 feet (and maybe a shade less)?

And does anyone know the 24-105mm L series lens? If I am taking a full body shot, standing in the center of the screen, is there going to be any significant distortion on my as the subject/talent? Or would I be better off springing for the 16-35mm L series lens?

I understand I will need a Zoom H4N field recorder with the 7D. I also understand that the picture will be better on the 5D, but that the 7D has better waterproofing.

It is a tough call here, and I was wondering if anyone has experience with any of these lenses, or combinations, and could help shed some light. We don't really have a local store we can go to. I will probably order from B&H, and they have always been good to me, so I don't want to give them any returns I don't have to.

Thanks much,



Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 5, 2010 at 1:10:39 am

I called my dad. He knows nothing about cameras, but he suggested that since I know I will want to take the camera outdoors at some point, but since I am not sure I will want to do silver screen, that I should "get the camera you can take outside without worrying about it."

So probably I should get the 7D, the 18-135mm kit lens for an everyday walkabout lens, and also the 16-35mm L series lens for the studio work?


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 5, 2010 at 2:12:58 am

OK, actually it looks like the 7D, the kit 28-135mm EF lens, and the 16-35mm L series lens for work in the studio. That should hold me for Home Theater, and I can also take it outdoors with the 28-135mm.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index


Bill Vincent
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 6, 2010 at 3:33:17 am

I have used both the 5D and 7D for video extensively - and I will tell you that I favor the 5D due to the larger sensor and a general sharpness I like more on the 5D. I've used the 24-105 lens on both cams, and a 28-55mm and a 50mm prime.

All I can say is that with the 7D I never had a goosebump moment - where I pull the footage up on my HDTV and just am overwhelmed with how good the footage looks right out of the cam. With the 5D I have felt this many times. I really think the larger sensor makes all the difference, but the 7D does have more controllable DOF - so it depends also on how important deeper DOF is for you (and slow motion capability).

I was in a unique situation where I bought a 5D and less than a month later the 7D came out. I thought I'd save money by getting the 7D instead, so I took the 5D back. BIG mistake. I missed it almost immediately. Due to unforseen circumstances and a friend losing my 7D, I was able to replace it with a 5D again. I'm much happier now.


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 6, 2010 at 4:42:19 pm

Hi Bill.

>>All I can say is that with the 7D I never had a goosebump moment - where I pull the footage up on my HDTV and just am overwhelmed with how good the footage looks right out of the cam. With the 5D I have felt this many times. I really think the larger sensor makes all the difference

That speaks volumes. Thanks.

I think we need the 16-35mm L series for in studio (on tripod), but may I please ask your opinion of the 24-105mm?


Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

maurice jansen
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 6, 2010 at 7:42:43 pm

hi norman

i hope you did consider some practical issue's with both camera's.

remember your record time is limited.
next to that you can get severe aliasing when used on non organic stuff.
focus pulling is hard/different then with "normal" video camera's.
not even talking about zooming.
although magic lantern can help here.
seeing focus is difficult on the inbuild LCD. so a external monitor is needed. magic lantern edge detect again can help you here.
i hope you in NTSC land because HDMI 25FPS is still not supported.
audio is very limited.

don't get me wrong.
i own one and i love it(although bought for photography)
the camera can give extreme good results but you must know where to use it and how.

for your field of view i would say.
visit. http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/camera-lenses.htm

i have my doubts for a studio enviroment. (depends on the kind of program you shoot)

please tell us more

greet
Maurice



People saying they don't make mistake's often make nothing at all!


Return to posts index


Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 7, 2010 at 12:41:45 am

Hi Maurice.

Thank you for the advice.

>>i have my doubts for a studio enviroment. (depends on the kind of program you shoot) please tell us more

I am hoping to shoot Infinite White.



Here is a picture of my screen. It is actually white polyester fleece.



Here is a picture of one of my two studio lights, along with one of my two key lights.



In the video they mention extra lights on the feet. I am not 100% sure what I am going to do for that yet. He mentions using clamp lights, so I got them, but the bulb sticks out of the front of the light, which spills unwanted light on the subject (me). I will try to mask it with simple aluminum foil, but it would be nice to make something long term out of white foam core, or something.

My studio space is my living room, so I only have 16 feet total space from focal plane to screen. I plan to raise the camera up to about eye level, and then angle down.

I was able to obtain a Canon T2i to test with, with the 18-55mm stock lens. Zoomed all the way out, I still have to stand about 9 feet from the camera to get a whole body shot, but that puts me into the side-spill of the screen lights (which is no good).

Since the T2i and the 7D are both reduced frame lenses, I thought my best bet would be to get the 5D with the 16-35mm L series lens. That should allow me to stand about 7 feet from the lens, which will clear the spray from the screen lights. That will just about finish my budget, but I secretly wanted the full frame sensor and the L series glass anyway :)

I plan to install the new 29.97 firmware upgrade, as well as Magic Lantern and the JuicedLink DN101 on my JuicedLink CX431 (to defeat AGC). The DN101 is less expensive than a Zoom H4N, and if I use the DN101, my editors should not have to synch audio in post.

The basic plan is for a half hour show with a Total Run Time of 28:30. I am planning three main 'movements' of nine minutes each, and then maybe a thirty second intro, a fifteen second outro, and a 15 second spot.

I rehearse my presentation when I write it, and then it usually only takes me two or three takes for each nine minute shot in order to get it right. Then I would hand off the footage to my editors.

I will say the test footage took a long time to upload via ftp.

I also have a green screen, if I ever wanted to go that route. The advantage of the white screen is that with a white background, the halo is white; so when presenting in 'infinite white' it can save a lot of time in post, because the correction does not have to be perfect.

Do you think the 5D will work with that?

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 7, 2010 at 1:16:07 am

Basically I just plan to stand in one spot, focus on me, and then gesture to the right or the left, but not move much.

Later, if I ever do interviews, it will probably also be static focus.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 7, 2010 at 1:23:26 am

Also, what is the 24-105mm lens like?

Thanks.


Return to posts index


Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 7, 2010 at 5:47:22 am

I forgot to add that I am planning to use an HDTV via HDMI-mini to HDMI hookup to frame my shots.


Return to posts index

Josh Buchanan
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 7, 2010 at 7:09:20 am

Hi Norma

I would recommend the Zoom H4n, because the 4 channel recording, if you have more than one person in the frame that you are interview you can have the two mics on the Zoom for a front ambient sound mic, and have two lavalier mics on the people, or some thing like that.

And for lenses, Sigma makes some fairy cheap lenses, they have a 10-20mm wide angel, and if you have the 7D, it will be a 16mm or 32mm. So that could work, and you can always check out Ebay for a deal. I've some good ones on there.

Josh


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 8, 2010 at 4:13:52 am

Hi Josh.

Thanks for the recommendation on the H4N. How can you get four channels of sound when there are only two XLR inputs? Does it give an option to use the onboard mics in addition to the XLR jacks?

Thanks for recommending the Sigma. How does their quality compare to the Canon L series lenses? And are there other lines of lenses I should be considering? It would be nice to get something high quality, that also has image stabilization.

Thanks.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index


Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 8, 2010 at 6:15:25 am

OK, I checked the Sigma series, as well as the Tamron, and Vivitar. They are not built for the full-frame sensor.


>>Note! This lens is only for APS-C / DX sensors (not full frame).


I also checked Carl Zeiss and Leica, but they are out of reach at this point.

Can anyone recommend some good magazine resources?

Thanks,

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

Josh Buchanan
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 8, 2010 at 6:03:31 pm

Norman,

The Zoom H4n, does the 4 Channel with the 2 onbroad mics, which aren't too bad. And the other two channels through the XLRs.


Return to posts index

Aaron Stewart
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 9, 2010 at 7:39:06 pm

The Zoom's inputs are XLR / Quarter inch combo inputs, just as a side note, so it takes both.

Aaron R. Stewart
arstewart@gmail.com


Return to posts index


Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 9, 2010 at 10:43:27 pm

Thanks. Yeah, I got a Zoom H4 back when it first came out (2005?). It took both .wav and .mp3, and I thought it was a great little unit. However, it died at fourteen months, and since it was two months out of warranty, Zoom would not fix it :(

If I did not have a CX431 already, I think an H4N ($320.00) would make the most sense. However, since I already have a CX431, all I need is a DN101 ($139.00). The CX431 will only record mono with the DN101 attachment, but at the moment I only need mono (as my microphone is mono). Also, it seems like recording directly to the H.264 file would save time in editing.

I am sure I will need stereo at some point, and will probably get an H4N then. But at the moment I just need to conserve funds. :)
Thanks.

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 11, 2010 at 3:41:36 am

thanks for the help Josh :)

Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

Brent Dunn
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 5:55:35 pm

I have both the 7D & 5D. The 7D will also overheat. Your limited by both with 12 minute clips. 5D full sensor is nice and the new upgraded firmware now give you audio control and proper frame rates.

Do the math on all the lenses, audio accessories, etc that you will need with both. Then go buy the Sony EX-1R. A true video cam used in broadcast and film production. It may sound more expensive, but add up all the stuff you will need with your choices and it's the same price or less.

A lot of film schools have chosen the EX-1 or EX-3. Next year you will see the hybrid Video cam's with DSLR lens & sensors. Panasonic and Sony have both shown a preview at NAB.

Then you can buy a 7D later as a 2nd cam. I would Never have these as my main and only camera. There are also rolling shutter issues with both.

Brent Dunn
Owner / Director / Editor
DunnRight Video.com


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 22, 2010 at 7:28:13 pm


Hi Brent.

Thanks for the advice. Nice cam!

With the 5D MkII I need the 16-35mm wide angle lens zoomed all the way out in order to get my talent in at 7 feet to lens.

Will the EX-1R give me a full body shot of my 6'8" tall talent at 7 feet from the focal plane?



Norman Willis
http://www.nazareneisrael.org


Return to posts index

John Major
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 23, 2010 at 12:26:11 pm

Hi Brent, you made the comment "I would Never have these as my main and only camera. There are also rolling shutter issues with both.". But from my understanding, the rolling shutter issue is due to the Canon cameras using a CMOS sensor. Both the ex-1 and ex-3 use CMOS sensors as well and are prone to the same issue. Am I missing something in your comment or do you feel that the issue isn't as bad on the Sony cams?
Thanks, John


Return to posts index

Norman Willis
Re: 7D or 5D Mk II; and which lens?
on Apr 23, 2010 at 4:15:14 pm

Hi Brent.

>>Next year you will see the hybrid Video cam's with DSLR lens & sensors. Panasonic and Sony have both shown a preview at NAB.

I am really looking forward to the new hybrid cams. Do you suppose I can hobble along until that time?

We just re-did our budget, and I may not be able to do the TV show at this time. It may be back to short, high-impact videos for now.

I am trying to make the best lemonade possible....


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]