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24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1

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Michael Granado
24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Apr 17, 2009 at 4:00:16 pm

i am new and just began shooting on 24F(standard) mode with the canon XH-A1.

however when i review the footage it looks sort of laggy or choppy when things move like if someone waves their hand. am i doing something wrong? do i need to adjust some settings? what should the shutter speed be at? i just want to get smooth video even if the subject is moving about the frame. thanks for any help!


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Todd Terry
Re: 24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Apr 17, 2009 at 3:55:28 pm

Any flavor of 24p (be it Canon's 24f or whatever), is going to be more stuttery than 60i... that's just the nature of it.

If your video looks too "stroby" you may be shooting with too high a shutter speed, so that each frame has little or no motion blur to fool the eye. When shooting 24fps the "normal" shutter speed should be 1/48th.

You say you "want to get smooth video even if the subject is moving about the frame"... in that case 24p may not be the best choice, maybe you would be better off shooting 60i.

60i is going to give you the very smoothest motion... combined with a sort of "reality TV" very videoy look. 24p is going to give a more dramatic filmic look, but the motion will not be as smooth.


T2

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Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Michael Granado
Re: 24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Apr 17, 2009 at 4:16:19 pm

so 24F will always be "stoby"? why is this? and why can't it be smooth? i wanted to shoot a fight scene but all the movement will surely be distracting, don't you think?

i am glad that 60i will capture everything smoothly but i don't want a "TV look". is this the only way to go? can tweaking the picture in post create a less "TV look"?


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Todd Terry
Re: 24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Apr 17, 2009 at 4:27:44 pm

24p is inherently not as smooth as 60i.

Are you saying that your look is more "stroby" than, say, a typical "Hollywood" movie that you'd watch via a DVD on your home TV? Or in a theatre? The next time you go to see a movie, if you really closely look at fast action, you'll notice that is is actually quite juddery indeed. Slightly-too-fast pans are expecially noticable... that's why there are "speed charts" in the ASC manual that list "do not exceed" pan speeds (expressed in degrees per second) for various frame rates combined with various focal lengths. But cinematographers still do it all the time.

Again, 24p is never going to be nearly as smooth as 60i... but 24fps is the way motion pictures have been shot for about a century now and it's what we're used to seeing.

But if you think that your 24f shooting looks substantially less smooth that normal telecined 24fps motion picture footage, then you may have some other issues going on.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Michael Granado
Re: 24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Apr 17, 2009 at 4:43:28 pm

yes i think my video is looking slightly more juddery than normal but maybe its the shutter speed or something. there is a scene where a character walks toward the camera and even that looks a little weird. but i guess i will have to mess with the settings to get it right or go with 60i.


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Kian Amirkhizi
Re: 24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Jan 1, 2010 at 4:04:00 am

Well Mr. Terry, I've been reading your posts for a while and have always found them useful. Tonight though, I was inclined to add to the conversation.

I also have a xh a1 and have found that the footage looks choppy as well in 24f when there is any sort of fast moving action. Much of what I shoot are fight scenes. Aside from shutter speed, does it help to always tripod the camera-avoiding necessary shaking when filming faster movements? And if so what about the hand held stabilizers (which I use)? I would hazard that the "shaky" look to increase tension is probably not ideal when talent is moving quickly. Any thoughts?




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Todd Terry
Re: 24F mode looks choppy, laggy on XH-A1
on Jan 1, 2010 at 7:52:57 am

[Kian Amirkhizi] "Well Mr. Terry, I've been reading your posts for a while"

Well, first... Mr. Terry is my dad. I'm Todd. :)

[Kian Amirkhizi] "have a xh a1 and have found that the footage looks choppy as well in 24f when there is any sort of fast moving action."

As I said earlier in this (very old) thread, that is just the nature of the beast when shooting at 24 frames per second... no matter what the format or camera. The same action could likely look just as "choppy" as the XHA1 footage if you were shooting real 35mm film with a million-dollar Panvision camera... provided the frame rate and shutter speeds were the same.

[Kian Amirkhizi] "does it help to always tripod the camera-avoiding necessary shaking when filming faster movements?"

Not necessarily. It depends on what kind of look and camera movement you want as a director. Watch Hollywood movies... action scenes often have cameras that move a lot. Imagine one of the fight scenes from "Raging Bull" (or even "Gladiator") with a locked-down camera. They'd probably be pretty boring. But rather, in those instances the camera moves a lot... in fact, it is darn near constantly moving. In those cases they add to the drama and make the action look more "actiony" than it actually is. Whether to move the camera or not is primariy a directoral decision (will it add to the drama? Will it help tell the story the way I want?) rather than a cinematographic decision (Will the action look smoother?).

[Kian Amirkhizi] "what about the hand held stabilizers (which I use)?"

Again, that's a directoral and stylistic decision. Does the scene call for a locked-down tripod shot? Or a smooth dolly shot? Or a floating Steadicam shot? Or a raw and shaky handheld shot? Each of those choices will affect the dynamic look of the scene, and each of them will tell the story in a slightly different way. It's a directoral choice.

[Kian Amirkhizi] "I would hazard that the "shaky" look to increase tension is probably not ideal when talent is moving quickly."

Actually, it's done all the time. Again, pick almost any action movie and I'll bet you'll find numerous examples where they do just that to good effect.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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