FORUMS: list search recent posts

1080i 30 frames

COW Forums : Canon Cameras

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Craig Bass
1080i 30 frames
on Sep 2, 2008 at 3:06:35 am

This is probably going to come off sounding ignorant, but how is it that the XH-A1 can shoot at 1080i and 30p? If one is shooting at 1080i shouldn't they be using an interlaced (60i) frame rate as well.

Thanks.

*Craig*


Return to posts index

Don Greening
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 2, 2008 at 5:49:59 am

[Craig Bass] "This is probably going to come off sounding ignorant, but how is it that the XH-A1 can shoot at 1080i and 30p?"

It doesn't sound ignorant. The numerous formats and the way they're advertised these days is confusing, to say the least. Canon's are even more confusing in that their progressive mode is actually called 30F instead of everyone else's 30p. The A1 shoots in both interlaced and in "frame mode". Interlaced NTSC mode is referred to as 60i but is actually shot at 59.94 "interlaced" frames per second to conform to the NTSC broadcast format. Canon's frame mode takes two interlaced frames every 30th of a second and combines them to form a single complete frame every 30th of a second and then records that to tape. But the 30F mode is actually shot at 29.97 complete frames per second to again, conform to the NTSC broadcast standard. Confused? Yeah, I know. True progressive mode is where the camera has actual progressive imagers and records one complete frame every 30th of a second (actually 29.97 fps) to tape. This is known as 30p.

- Don



Return to posts index

Craig Bass
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 2, 2008 at 7:43:11 am

So, due to the fact that 30F mode is, in a sense interlaced, there is no issue with it interfacing with the 1080i setting? Am I on the right track?

Most of what I shoot is destined for SD DVD and webcast; however, there is always the possibility that it will be finalized as an HD DVD: with this in mind, what are the settings you would suggest? Up until this point, I have been shooting on 1080i 30F.

Thanks for taking the time to provide me with an answer. It is much appreciated.

*Craig*



Return to posts index


Don Greening
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 2, 2008 at 8:52:56 am

[Craig Bass] "Am I on the right track? "

Mmmmm, not really. 30F is Canon's version of progressive shooting, so it is essentially one complete frame of video compared to interlaced, which is 2 fields of video per frame. That's the fundamental reason why interlaced is referred to as 60i and 30F is well, 30F. If you mix the two in the same timeline you're going to have to change one or the other to match. If your final delivery is for the web it's always better to shoot in frame mode because computer screens display video in progressive format. If you shoot for SD DVD personally I would still shoot with the A1 again in frame mode because today's HD plasma and LCD TV monitors handle progressive video better than interlaced. This last bit is just my own observation. To satisfy your own curiosity you might consider doing a test using both modes and judge for yourself what looks good on today's televisions.

Hope this helps.

- Don



Return to posts index

TL Westgate
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 4, 2008 at 6:35:54 pm

I just found out something interesting. If you shoot in 24F (and probably 30F) mode on the A1, uncheck Frame Blend on your clip in the timeline!

-- TL


Return to posts index

Don Greening
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 5, 2008 at 10:58:02 pm

[TL Westgate] "If you shoot in 24F (and probably 30F) mode on the A1, uncheck Frame Blend on your clip in the timeline!"

What happens if you don't? Just curious, as I don't use any Canon HDV cameras.

- Don



Return to posts index


TL Westgate
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 7, 2008 at 9:11:08 pm

Frame blend, from what I understand, blends the frames of interlaced footage so it's easier on the eyes. However, with progressive footage, it tends to blur things up instead.

-- TL


Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 7, 2008 at 9:29:14 pm

Well, what editing platform are you talking about? In Adobe Premiere (i.e., Premire Pro CS3), "frame blend" only has any affect if your clip on the timeline is anything other than "normal", that is, not 100% speed.

If you speed up a clip (set its speed >100%) or slow it down (speed <100%) then checking or unchecking the "frame blend" box is definitely worth trying... sometimes you get much better results with one vs. the other. However if your clip speed is 100%, it doesn't matter if the box is checked or not... since no frame blending is actually applied to normal speed clips.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index

TL Westgate
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 8, 2008 at 5:12:19 pm

Hrmm, I guess I'm still getting a handle on this A1, then. I shot using 24f mode and am editing in a 29.97 timeline. The frame blend switch makes the footage look bad.

-- TL


Return to posts index


Todd Terry
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 8, 2008 at 5:23:02 pm

Canon's 24f mode should import into a 29.97 timeline just fine, no frame rate chage or frame blending or pulldown removal/addition should be needed at all. Frame blending is typically not for framerate conversion, it is for smoothing out clips that are of different speeds on the timeline, not different framerates. If you have your clip set at any speed other than 100%, try frame blending to see if it gives improved results (sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't). If your speed is 100%, leave frame blending off.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index

TL Westgate
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 9, 2008 at 1:57:19 pm

Okay, here is what I'm talking about. I have a 24f video on a 29.97 timeline. This is with Frame Blend on:



And here it is with Frame Blend off:



Even though my speed hasn't changed, I guess it's interpolating intermediate frames with Blend on, and duplicating frames with Blend off. I think the Blend off looks better.

-- TL


Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 9, 2008 at 2:13:21 pm

Ok...what editing platform is that?



T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index


TL Westgate
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 9, 2008 at 2:30:09 pm

Premiere Pro on a PC.

-- TL


Return to posts index

Marlon Diaz
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Sep 18, 2008 at 12:24:01 am

check out this link from the Canon website talks about 1080i/30F
http://www.usa.canon.com/app/html/XLH1/frame_rates_formats.shtml

In 60i mode, the frame rate switches between 60i (60 fields per second, interlaced-the "standard" video speed), 30F, and 24F.

These Frame modes have the same look as progressive frame rates, but are not labeled "progressive" because they are created with an interlaced chip. The end result is exactly the same to the editing system (and to our eyes) as 30p and 24p, respectively.

Note: The actual frame rates are 59.94, 29.97 and 23.976 for 60i mode.


ps: i recently recorded a live disco concert arena size with 7,000 people in attendance with four (4) rented Canon XL-H1 at 1080i/30F to mini DV tapes (total of 20 tapes). I currently seeking the best and afforable solution to capture my mini DV tapes to a Powermac Quad G5 to FCP.


Miami, FL


Return to posts index

Sean Tatalovich
Re: 1080i 30 frames
on Mar 2, 2009 at 7:36:29 pm

Hi all I am pretty confused. I am shooting use this Canon camera at 30p.
http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=1...

It says 30p but I emailed Canon and they said it is 30p but 1080i interlaced.

I am capturing using 1080i 30p. So is my result 30p in the end after capturing?

Now regarding field render. It says upper field first obviously since it is 1080i. BUT I work only on the web do I need to do upper field first or can I leave it off? Will my rendering be sped up because of this?

Thanks




Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]