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Framerate for project : DVD, BluRay & 1080P video

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Wick van den belt
Framerate for project : DVD, BluRay & 1080P video
on Jan 12, 2014 at 2:53:59 pm

Hi community,
I am doing a documentary which is an (international) project.

Normally my projects will only end up online, so I am used to shoot at 25fps (normally 1920X1080) since I come from PAL-land and I guess I'm still kinda used to the frame-rate from 'back-in-the-days'...

However for a project that I am currently doing I will need to distribute the final movie on DVD, as well as Blu-ray and a digital download (& upload to Youtube).

So I am very much looking into what the best approach and workflow for this project would be, and if anyone would be so kind to help me out a bit.

It seems I will need to end up with different frame-rates and dimensions of the same video.
I can give you some details about the project and the assets that I have for it, and what formats I (think) I'll have to export it to.

My assets.
  • 2d animations. (Which are all done in after effects, so I should be able to change the frame-rate here...)

  • Video footage. (Shot on canon EOS, so I can change the frame-rate to whatever is best, I would normally chose 25 fps.

  • Voice overs and music.

    Formats to export to. (From high to low...)
  • Blu Ray (1920 x 1080 - 25 FPS.) 96 KHz audio

  • Web & Youtube (1920 x 1080 - 25 FPS.) 48 KHz audio

  • DVD (720 x 480 - 29.97 FPS.) 48 KHz audio


  • My questions about this :

    Should I use 50 fps for the Bluray or can I simply use 25 fps?
    Am I correct about the formats that I'm choosing? Since I haven't got a BluRay player, so I don't have experience with that so far.

    What would be the best to shoot my footage at?
    If I'm only converting it to NTSC for the dvd, would it be best (framerate wise) to shoot film and make my animations at 25 FPS and convert it to 29.97, or would it be best to shoot and animate at 29.97 and convert it down to 25?

    What would be the best workflow for the project?
    - Creating after effects projects for the animations and later changing the frame rate of the compositions for different renders?
    - Rendering the animations at a 25 fps uncompressed format out of after effects, and later interpreting the different frame-rates when exporting the final versions?
    - Creating my 'master project' with all video-footage, audio, and rendered animations so when it's all finished I can duplicate this and make different compositions at different frame-rates?
    - Or is it wise to maintain a 25fps-workflow throughout the creation-process and render the final video at 25 fps. >Than import that 'master-render' in a new AE project to render out the different formats that will need to be distributed by interpreting the frame-rate and scaling the video-size of that 'master-render'?

    NTSC dvd?
    I have read that it's best to create a NTSC-dvd, as 95% of the PAL dvd players would still be able to play back these, but NTSC players aren't able to read pal-encoded disks?

    -I have access to all the animations as I am doing these myself, so I can be tweaking the projects. I have started making some at 25 fps, any better suggestions?

    - Interviews and videofootage still has to be shot, so I can still chose which frame-rate to film at.

    There's quite some confusion in my head right now.. But I am sure it can be done in a pretty simple workflow and I hope anyone is able to give me some tips here.

    with kind regards

    Wick.


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    Daniel Ludwig
    Re: Framerate for project : DVD, BluRay & 1080P video
    on Jan 13, 2014 at 7:11:02 am

    I´ll jump in,
    wick, the best way to go is: 23.98fps on BD for progressive material and there are several reasons for this:

    1. if you need to do international distribution 25fps wont work with BD, as 1080i25 is mandatory for europe and australia only. all other players wont play 25fps.

    2. you should edit your film in 25fps, export the master and then do a conforming from 25fps to 23.98fps - that´s a simple and common process. in fact it´ll slow down your video + audio 4% but that´s ok.

    3. it´s very simple to create a 29.98 NTSC-DVD from 23.98fps HD-master. all encoders will create the necessary 3:2 pulldown.

    4. blu-ray wont support 1080p50 as it´s NOT a part of the BD-specs.

    so, if you allreasy shot on 25fps progressive you´ll be fine, if you´ll shot all pictures, you can choose the framerate that would fit in your workflow or for the media you´ll end up with.

    cheers

    danny


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    Wick van den belt
    Re: Framerate for project : DVD, BluRay & 1080P video
    on Jan 13, 2014 at 12:14:29 pm

    Hi Danny,
    thanks a lot for your quick reply!

    -That was exactly the answer that I was hoping for!

    This means I should be able to do my animations and video-shots in 25 fps, and edit the whole film in that framerate and simply convert the final (preferably uncompressed?) render.

    And a 4% speed change over a 60 minutes film wouldn't be too bad I suppose!

    I am curious to find out how the typography/animations will look like when using this workflow, So I might perform a few small test-renders.

    And I suppose that I'll have to be very precise with shooting and animating and keeping that final crop in mind when I'm going to convert it to NTSC for DVD.

    Thanks a lot!
    I might post my experiences on this workflow in a later stage. (It might help out someone else in the future.)

    Cheers,

    Wick.


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    eric pautsch
    Re: Framerate for project : DVD, BluRay & 1080P video
    on Jan 13, 2014 at 4:19:26 pm

    To add

    Pretty much all PAL players play NTSC discs. Not 95% :)

    Always work in 23.98 these days.....always



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    Daniel Ludwig
    Re: Framerate for project : DVD, BluRay & 1080P video
    on Jan 13, 2014 at 7:44:53 pm

    Wick,
    the only thing you need to take care of is a progressive workflow, so your shots and animations needs to be 25p.

    so your workflow should be:

    1.edit your film and export it as apple pro res with 25fps (if your on mac) or maybe avid DNX HD 185mbit (on mac and pc). MOV or AVI, whatever you prefer.

    note: for avid dnx, you need to download the dnx-installer from the avid-website (for free).

    2. after you´ve exported your film, you need to reimport the previous exported film. then right-click on it, then modify>interprete footage as.....

    set the framerate to 23,98fps, create a new sequenz with the 23.98fps, drag your clip into the sequenz and export again as MOV or AVI.

    voila, here you are with your 1080p23.98-master for BD and DVD.

    cheers

    danny


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