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23,98 fps stutters on some players

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Alan Langdon
23,98 fps stutters on some players
on Aug 12, 2013 at 11:59:49 pm

I am shooting footage on Canon 5Ds, and editing in native 23,98 framerate of the FInal Cut Pro ingests to Pro Res. As usual, I compress using Compressor, bypassing any framerate change (which probably means hidden pull-down, right?), the resulting mpeg2 is 23,98 according to MPEG Streamclip. I have learned elsewhere that what is happening is that the M2v file really has 30 fps but "hides" the extra frames from most DVD and BluRay players, so these can play smoothly the 24p framerate.
Or is there such a thing as a "pure" 24 / 23,98 fps m2v?

This works fine on most DVD players, but I have seen some clients complain that the movie stutters, sort of going and slowing down, going and slowing down, while the overall speed is fine and sound is also fine. I have seen this, could it be the player is trying to figure out what to do with the extra "hidden" frames and choking in the process?

I know this is something that only appears on some players, as mine doe snot have this issue , and nor does the Mac DVD player. But the clients, who use DVD players sometimes, and Playstation sometimes (!) have made this complaint and I'd like to encode a "dummy proof" dvd which plays smoothly everywhere, without losing too much image quality due to pulldown (interlaced inter-frames, doubled frames, etc).

Any hints? Any will be much appreciated!


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Bill Stephan
Re: 23,98 fps stutters on some players
on Aug 13, 2013 at 4:49:30 pm

Alan,

You say your MPEG-2 is encoded at 23.98fps. DVD spec does not support that framerate. If the original source is 23.98fps, that must be encoded as 29.97fps using 3:2 pulldown, and you should encode using an advanced encoder having IVT (3:2 pulldown removal). Those encodes will play as 23.98 if the DVD player senses it is connected to a 24P-capable monitor. Otherwise, the player plays 29.97 with the 3:2 pulldown, which displays properly on everything else.

Apple Compressor does not have the ability to encode with IVT.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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Alan Langdon
Re: 23,98 fps stutters on some players
on Aug 13, 2013 at 6:31:09 pm

Fantastically simple answer, thank you.
This confirms what I already had researched and learned, but these clients who have been showing up lately brought the issue back into discussion for me.

What I had learned was that if the DVD or BluRay player are connected to a display/monitor/TV via HDMI, that's when they can see if or not the display can support true 24p. But two things have proved this not quite the case:

1) my Phillips DVD player, probably 3-4 years old, does this proper pulldown removal, when connected via HDMI, but ALSO even when connected via RCA (component, really). So the HDMI is not essencial for the player to detect progressive scan on the display, it seems.

2) One of such clients complained of the aforementioned lagging/stuttering when playing the DVD (Compressor authored... a-ha!) on a Playstation (3, I think) using HDMI...! The PS console is probably 3-4 years old, he says.


Question: will BitViceSD encode with IVT?

Because I in fact purchased BitVice a few years ago, but not always getting the best results from it and thus have been using Compressor.
BitVice in fact gives me the option to encode at 30 fps, 29,97..., 24, 23,976.., 29,97 w/ pulldown, 30 w/ pulldown, etc... What to make of all these options? When coming from 24p, seems like the only one to really use is 29,97 w/ pulldown, wouldn't you say?

Many thanks for helping out!

-Alan



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Bill Stephan
Re: 23,98 fps stutters on some players
on Aug 13, 2013 at 9:29:34 pm

Regarding your Phillips DVD player, I'll bet you find in the setup menus a setting to enable/disable 24P playback. But for the DVD player auto detect the capability of the display, that requires an HDMI connection.

Regarding BitVice, I don't use it, so I can't comment on its features. Iwould think that the help file or other documentation would explain the various encoding options. Maybe another BitVice user can comment.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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