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Exact copy and editing software.

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liam latrine
Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 8, 2011 at 6:31:43 am

Hi, if this is in the wrong forum, I apologise and ask you to advise me where it should go if wrong. Thank you.

I am new to working with video so would appreciate baby steps please as necessary.

I am having a major headache trying to find the program/s that will allow me to extract/copy a standard DVD disc (IFO/VOB/MPEGII) into an exact copy of a single file in AVI "lossless" format.

The problems I keep finding are that they (the programs up to now):
a) restrict the output file size (say 2GB)
b) they automatically use codecs and compress and so become lossy
c) they expect me to want to burn the copy back onto a disc which I do/will not.

I will not be burning the output back onto disc. It will remain on a hard drive. There are no issues with hard drive space and so I want and need to keep the original quality even if the file size runs into 100GB's.

Once I have the exact copy, I will edit the single AVI file into the parts I need (such as removing chapters, titles, menus etc as these are not required). Then I will delete the extraction.

Once I have all the parts I need, I then need to add effects, text etc and then create a new compilation.

The new lossless AVI compilation needs to maintain the exact copy status with no loss of video or audio quality. Again, I will not be burning the output back onto disc. It will remain on a hard drive. There are no issues with hard drive space and so I want and need to keep the original quality even if the file size runs into 1,000GB's.

The final lossless AVI compilation file (single file) needs to be able to contain in excess of ten hours running time (can someone please confirm if this is possible as I cannot find an answer anywhere on this point - if hard drive space is not an issue, in AVI format, are there any file size restrictions? I'm told there are not but since the programs restrict the output file size, I cannot determine this to be true as yet).

Since most codecs, as I read, make some form of compression and so lose quality etc, how do I stop the program from using such codecs? I have not yet seen a program that offers AVI lossless.

So, please can anyone advise me which program/s will let me:

1 - extract the MPEGII format DVD.
2 - re-encode it to lossless AVI format.
3 - Make edits, add additional material and effects.
4 - create compilations (no file size restrictions in this format - other than hard drive space) in AVI lossless format.

If more than one program is required or specific addons, please advise. The right program should also have an edit panel that can be made to full screen size for ease of editing (and not having to screw my eyes up trying to see haha).

Again, the output files are not for copying, resale, streaming etc (so please do not think I am a ripper or whatever the term is). Region is PAL.

If you need additional information, please ask.

I am so looking forward to being pointed in the right direction after wasting so much time, effort and money and getting nowhere.

Thank you in advance for your help.


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Michael Slowe
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 8, 2011 at 11:15:06 am

Liam, I believe that Titanium Toast (version 11 Pro) will enable you to extract what you want from your DVD. However, that has already been encoded to MPEG 2 which is rather compressed and I don't think that there is any way you can get that back to an uncompressed state. You would need the original material for that.

Michael Slowe


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liam latrine
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 9, 2011 at 2:23:32 am

Hi Michael, since the MPEGII is all I have and what I am working from (original DVD disc), perhaps my saying lossless confused you. I need to keep the best I have as it is but in a much more easily editable format. Hence lossless AVI as I have been informed, is my best choice. I'll look at Titanium.

Thanks for the response.


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Filip Kubis
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 8, 2011 at 12:24:33 pm

I believe the absolutely best solution to be Squared 5. It is free, it is very fast and I use it as much as possible. And for what you need, I believe this to be the best thing.

You can export the whole DVD in unchanged quality MPEG2 that is on the DVD. And if you wish even use .avi container (but that does not matter)... You will cut and edit this one in some editing software and export as current settings (without any further encoding).

There is no point in converting the MPEG2 into anything else. You will not get any better result than there is. Only if your editing software does not support MPEG2 (which I believe it will) you might want to use Uncompress 8 bit or 10 bit... But as I said most probably there is no point doing that.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________
DVD bitrate calculator: HERE
DVD Bit Budgeting tool: HERE
Dual-Layer Break tutorial: HERE
Anit-aliasing PS plugin: HERE
Other very useful stuff: HERE


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Michael Sacci
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 8, 2011 at 6:37:53 pm

I second Mpeg Streamclip. I would recommend you exporting the DVD clip into the codec that matches the clips that you plan to add.


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liam latrine
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 9, 2011 at 2:31:24 am

Thanks Michael for also nominating Filip's. All clips 'should" be in the same format. Trying to keep it simple.


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liam latrine
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 9, 2011 at 2:27:39 am

Filip, sounds like you know what i want/need. Going to see how your recommendation works for me.

Thank you so much :)


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Andreas Gumm
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 8, 2011 at 12:34:51 pm

I don't know exactly what you want to do!
A modern NLE system is able to edit whith MPEG2 & AC3/PCM streams directly in your timeline. There is no need to convert it to a lossless AVI format before.
Some NLE systems (for example Grass Valley EDIUS 6) are able to import such contents directly from disc (without CSS decryption), but in some cases it's really better if you demux the content to HDD & drag it to the timeline.
Then do your editing steps.

For demuxing use PGCdemux, it's fast & reliable!
http://www.videohelp.com/tools/PgcDemux

Andreas Gumm
selfemployed media author


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liam latrine
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 9, 2011 at 2:15:56 am

Uhm, thanks guys for your inputs. I'll have to take some time to go through the various programs. I was kind of hoping for a unanimous one program lol.

Andreas, let me clarify.

I want to create a compilation video with audio from standard PAL DVD discs I have, that when complete will be able to run for at least 10 hours non-stop.

I want exact copy = lossless since the files copied or created will not be burned to disc, they will remain on my hard drive (hence no file size limit).

Through other help and advice, I've deduced that to extract the MPEGII, I should use a lossless AVI container so that I can end up with a single, unlimited size file that is then very easy to edit.

So I am asking what is the best program for me to do this since up to now, the one I've found the easiest to use that offers full screen views for both original and editing windows, transitions, text etc is Womble's MPEG Video Wizard DVD with one problem; it cannot give me exact copy since it restricts the output file size.

So Step 1: find a program that offers lossless AVI extraction from MPEGII, to end up with a single high quality video and audio file (exact copy/lossless) - that must feature no file size restriction.

Step two is to then edit this single file (ok video and audio is separate I know) to end up with the video and audio I want as numerous "single" extracts/files, without loss of video or audio quality. Which program does this the best? The same as above or another?

Step three, create compilations without loss of video or audio quality from the numerous "single" extracts/files. Between each individual video & audio file I will include transitions, still HD jpegs (for example), Titles and additional text with effects, etc) Which program does this the best? The same as above or another?

You may well (and quite rightly ask) why extract as a whole AVI file when after that you're going to edit it/cut it up anyway? That's a waste of time and energy surely?

Well there are a few reasons that lead me to this logic:
1 - I can't find a program to edit the IFO/VOB/MPEGII into segments as I require without file size restriction.
2 - the program automatically expecting me to reburn the project onto disc.
3 - the program demanding I select a codec that will create a lossy output.
4 - since a DVD is broken up into files of restricted size, there are going to be breaks in the replay of certain parts I want to end up with as a single file, between the DVD VOB's.
5 - I've been told without doubt that a single lossless AVI extracted file will give me the quality I want without file size restriction and is the easiest way to then edit as I require.
6 - inexperience (being very honest).

I could and would be happy to miss the full extraction part if I could find "THE" program that will allow me to edit the MPEGII and extract the parts I want into a lossless AVI container without file restriction.

When I have tried this, the file size that will be produced runs to say 12 gigs or more. The file size is not a problem. The program is as it is unable to deal with this size of file.

And so I keep going round in circles. Inability to offer lossless AVI, inability to offer limitless file size output etc.

DVD Shrink did a great job of extracting and creating new IFO/VOB/MPEGII files. But the little editing window makes it guess work as to where to start and end the edit and since this is a backup program, it doesn't offer a solution to my requirements.

Does this help you to understand my predicament more and what I want to to achieve?

I hope so as it's so frustrating.

I keep thinking of the analogy with music and CD's. Since my choice and preferred digital music file type is say FLAC, when I want to make a music compilation I create FLACS through say EAC. I can then create my own compilations, playlists etc. I don't want or need MP3, Itunes, AAC, WAV, WMA, PCM, OGG etc no matter how many people are happy and content with these formats.

I know video + audio is a different "kettle of fish", but the principle of the above analogy is what I am aiming for. Extract a CD in full as individual FLAC files and make my own compilations.


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Andreas Gumm
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 11, 2011 at 1:46:55 am

Liam,

why is Womble DVD limiting AVI size?
Sometimes the file system causes restrictions for file size. So take care your HDD is NTFS formated!

Btw, Womble DVD is no real good choice for complexe editing. It just gives you the chance to edit with MPEG2 smart rendering.

My recent suggestion contained a reliable way!
As I said, an actual NLE system can edit MPEG2 & AC3 files directly in timeline. Internal decoding is virtualy lossless so if you export your edited footage to a lossless codec you will get what you want.

Before you can work you have to rip the files from the disc to your HDD & demux video & audio from stream (maybe with PGCdemux)! Demuxing is important to prevent you from out-synced audio.
Drag both asset to a timeline, link audio with video & just start editing! Export your result to a losless codec of your choice!

Another way to convert your footage to AVI is using VirtualDub with installed MPEG2 & AC3 plugins! Virtualdub is able to load the complete VOB-chain! Export it to a lossless AVI codec of your choice with PCM audio!

Andreas Gumm
selfemployed media author


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liam latrine
Re: Exact copy and editing software.
on Aug 11, 2011 at 2:12:08 am

Thanks Andreas, will try.

Womble was just someone else's suggested solution. Yep, always NTFS. What I liked about womble was the ability to have two full size windows for accurate editing.

I'm still struggling with learning all this, especially the codec side when I get a dozen or more codecs to choose from and no clue as to which will give the output I want.

I got Squared5 which took a day to stop it crashing and then the next day I got zero results. So many Apple codecs when I'm on Windows.

Can you advise how to ensure the app uses say "Lagarith" which I've downloaded and installed?

Squared5 doesn't give a how to in detailed baby steps. Can you help direct me to a great tutorial so I can setup each stage correctly (regardless of the program). So many new terms to understand etc.

Thanks again :)


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