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PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region

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Schroeder Eric
PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 13, 2010 at 5:33:58 pm

Aloha,

So I was requested by a client last night to make a PAL blu-ray, and when I checked it on a Samsung Blu-Ray player and a Sony Bravia HDTV there was a lot of stuttering and choppy audio. I've obviously seen this before when doing SD DVD authoring, however never ran into this issue for Blu-Ray. I than checked it on a professional Sony Trinitron broadcast monitor which would play PAL content from Digibetas, and noticed the same result. Now I deduced it down to either the disk was bad, or that the Blu-Ray player doesn't support a PAL Blu-Ray, but I didn't think that was an issue with Blu-Ray. Here was my workflow:

1) Encode MPEG-2 1920x1080 PAL compliant file - play fine in VLC player
2) Use Toast 10 to make Blu-Ray Disk, making sure it is set to PAL

After the disk is done, I get the flicker when playing in the Samsung. I play the disk throught the burner on the MAC and use either VLC or Roxio Media Player that ships with toast and the Blu-Ray content plays fine without any jitter. All is good when going through the computer.

Is it just simply that the Blu-Ray player is NTSC and has problems playing the disk? Is what I sent out going to play fine in a Blu-Ray player sent in a PAL region? Anybody have any luck with this?


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eric pautsch
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 13, 2010 at 10:43:06 pm

There's no such thing as PAL in BD. Is that what Toast says? Hilarious! :) What are the specs of your original file and your encoded file? Why is your client asking for a PAL BD?



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Schroeder Eric
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 14, 2010 at 4:48:58 pm

As far as I've known so far, Blu-Ray is either 24 or 60 fps frame rates - but this is the first time I've seen this. When I take the PAL MPEG-2 into toast I'm prompted with the message:

"The TV standard currently set to NTSC, but all your content is in PAL format. Do you want to write a PAL dis or re-encode all content to NTSC"

I select PAL because that is what the client is asking for - even though I think I should have just made it 24 FPS. After burning the disk however, I have no success on playback on the Blu-Ray player. Plays fine on the computer - but no dice on the Blu-Ray player.

Curious if anyone has encountered this attempting this.


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eric pautsch
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 14, 2010 at 11:31:34 pm

Like I said, what are the spec of your source?

Here are the specs:



High Definition Video
1920x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9)
1920x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
1440x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1440x1080x24p, 23.976p (16:9) AVC / VC-1 only
1280x720x59.94p, 50p (16:9)
1280x720x24p, 23.976p (16:9)
Standard Definition Video
720x480x59.94i (4:3/16:9)
720x576x50i (4:3/16:9)

Blu Ray supports 50i or 25 fps but this is not PAL.



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Schroeder Eric
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 15, 2010 at 5:22:15 am

Original source came in on HDCAM:

1920x1080x59.94i, 59.94 (16:9)

We in turn brought it through an alchemist converter and made a PAL HDCAM at:


1920x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9)

So I made a source file from this tape that was 1920x1080 @ 25 fps progressive. MPEG-2 of course, which I brought into toast. I get the flicker as a result.


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Roman Melekh
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 15, 2010 at 3:05:03 pm

what is:
[Schroeder Eric] "1920x1080x59.94i, 50i (16:9)"
???

your video 59.94i or 50i ? :)



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Schroeder Eric
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 15, 2010 at 4:14:52 pm

sorry, victim of cutting and pasting there - it was 50i


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eric pautsch
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 15, 2010 at 5:08:41 pm

Make a 50i file and encode that. There is no such thing as 25p in BD. Also make sure you view it on a European monitor and player.

Also I said Euro specs support 50i and 25p - I meant 50i and 24p



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Bill Stephan
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 16, 2010 at 5:11:20 pm

You can create 50i Blu-ray discs, but no Blu-ray player I'm aware of can play them correctly. We've made several 50i Blu-ray discs for foreign clients, and none of the clients complained about them.

Bill Stephan
Senior Editor/DVD Author
USA Studios
New York City


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Schroeder Eric
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 17, 2010 at 6:09:42 am

Yes, Thank you everybody.

I guess my question is centered around the folks in the UK. Have you ever received a disk that is 25 FPS that is progressive from the states and it plays fine in a PAL blu ray player? looking into it today as a result of damage control and being preumptive - I see that adobe encore will mkae a blu-ray disk as 50i fps - did I fuck up by encoding and make the file as 25 FPS progressive? Will this play properly?


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eric pautsch
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 18, 2010 at 7:21:23 pm

You F'd it up :). There is no 25p in BD. Besides, you took an interlaced source and made it progressive. Make a 50i file and encode that.



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Schroeder Eric
Re: PAL Blu-Ray - Flicker when previewing in NTSC region
on Feb 22, 2010 at 4:45:38 pm

Yeah,

I think you are right on the money, I mucked up my original encode making a progressive file at 25 FPS. I fired up Adobe Encore and when setting up a new PAL project and playing with the settings, the only option to get a progressive scan for PAL is going to be:

1280x1080 at 50 FPS

Whenever the other (2) options are selected

1440x1080
1920x1080

The only option in regards to field dominance defaults to Upper field first at 50i for these PAL project settings. Looks like I should have made at file that was 50i with upper field dominance if this was the case.

It seems the only way to get a full on Progressive scanned at HD sizes such at 1920x1080 & 1440x1080 in Encore is to make a project at a frame rate of 23.976. For Encore however, the only time this is allowed is if I set the television standard to be NTSC and the drop down menu for frame rate selection than allows me to select 23.976. This leads me to ask:

Do people in PAL formatted areas that have Blu-Ray players have the capability to play back on there Players at 23.976? The fact that Encore doesn't have a dropdown for 23.976 when the television standard is set to PAL throws red flags up in mind on this capability and I'm wondering if anyone has tested this out before.



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