FORUMS: list search recent posts

00:00:00:00 timecode

COW Forums : DVD Authoring

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Anneli Engstrom
00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 9, 2008 at 10:41:14 am

Dear all, I got a message from a support of a company making an mpeg encoder, that it causes problems with a DVD to have an mpeg timecode start at 00:00:00:00. I have never heard of this, and both Compressor and BitVice and many other fine programs start the timecode at 00:00:00:00 (which I happen to like) and I have hade no complaints what so ever on widely distributed DVD:s.

Has anyone heard of this?


Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 9, 2008 at 6:27:50 pm

Sure anything's possible- just reset the timecode. You didn't say which encoder you mean. But if they can't help you, switch encoders.

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Return to posts index

Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 9, 2008 at 7:08:14 pm

Thank you for your reply.

This encoder has programmed the timecode to always start at 01:00:00:00, and when I complained the support told me that 00:00:00:00 is not allowed for DVD:s. I found this very strange, and wanted to check with other professionals.

I wasn't sure about saying what encoder it is due to the forum rules and me complaining about it. I'm new at this forum.

But this is considered a very good, industry standard encoder.



Return to posts index


William Busby
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 10, 2008 at 10:29:28 pm

If you told us the name of this encoder, would you have to kill us? :D



Return to posts index

Noah Kadner
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 11, 2008 at 3:50:47 am

Yes tell us the name of the encoder- or we cannot help you very much. :)

Noah

My FCP Blog. Unlock the secrets of the DVX100, HVX200 and Apple Color and Win a Free Letus Extreme.
Now featuring the Sony EX1 Guidebook, DVD Studio Pro and Sound for Film and TV.
http://www.callboxlive.com


Return to posts index

eric pautsch
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 11, 2008 at 4:11:17 pm

There's absolutely nothing against the rules saying you can't complain about a certain tool...if so, I would have been kicked off years ago :) But your not complying anyway since I'm sure there's a fix

Which encoder was it?



Return to posts index


Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 12, 2008 at 8:49:17 am

I'm sorry to have been so unnecessarily mysterious. I'll get the hang of the Forum rules soon enough. :)

The encoder is Cinema Craft MP, and it is the official support at Omni that tells me that an mpeg file should never start with 00:00:00:00. There definitely is no fix for it, because I uploaded a test file to convince them that CCEMP changed the timecodes to 01:00:00:00, because they did not believe me. And then the new answer was that it does and that 00:00:00:00 timecodes should not be used anyway as it "is very difficult and causes many problems".

As I had never heard of this before I wanted to check with other people who make DVD:s, and who may know more than me.



Return to posts index

Eric Pautsch
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 1:08:23 am

Are you using DVDSP? Right click on the timeline and make sure you aren't seeing "Zero based TC" but "Asset based TC".

E



Return to posts index

Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 8:29:32 am

Thank you for your help, but I don't really understand. My question is:

"Does 00:00:00:00 timecode really cause problems on a DVD"

It is only secondary that I am displeased that Cinema Craft MP changes the timecode, and that I think that the support at Omni might be giving me a false answer to protect strange programming. (Now I've also checked my demo for Cinema Craft SP, and it has no problems either with 00:00:00:00 timecode. No other encoder I've used has).


But yes, I use DVDSP, and I look at the "General information" of the file from inside the program. And the engineers at Omni have confirmed that their program changes the timecode to 01:00:00:00.

So, has anyone heard of this? 00:00:00:00 timecode being problematic for DVD's? I use it all the time, and have had rave reviews on the functionality of my DVD's.



Return to posts index


eric pautsch
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 4:35:31 pm

No that shouldn't be an issue. I'm surprised if that's the way the tool works. Can you work around it?



Return to posts index

Michael Sacci
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 4:39:51 pm

A dvd does not care about the TC but an encoder changing TC would cause problems with subtitle import and chapter marker list. I would think this is something should be fixed on the software.



Return to posts index

Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 6:07:28 pm

eric and Michael: Thank you both for voting for 00:00:00:00 not being an issue at all.

Yes, the problem comes with subtitle import. I don't import chapter markers but make the chapters inside DVDSP, so there you have still another serious side to the problem.

For subtitle import one can import subtitles with no track present. That is also the reason why I like the 00:00:00:00 timecode - if all else fails. But it seems to be different with NTSC, so one would have to make an mpeg-file with another encoder to be able to import the subtitles correctly. But one shouldn't have to.

I was very impressed with the Cinema Craft SP demo, and then glad to know that the MP version would make it possible for me to stay in my Mac, and that it was supposed to be even better than SP. But I find it filled with issues, and I will continue my contact with the Omni Support.



Return to posts index


Michael Sacci
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 6:16:41 pm

One question. Are you sure your movie file's TC actually starts at 00:00:00;00 and not 01:00...

If you export a movie from a default FCP timeline the TC would start at 01:00... an exported movie takes on the TC of the timeline unless you have gone in and changed it.



Return to posts index

Lucas Fazzary
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 6:37:32 pm

The 00:00:00:00 timecode should not be used in Cinema Craft. It has special meaning to CCE encoder especially when you use Pulldown or inverse pulldown. This was the case with SP2 as well. I wish I could tell you why, but I have no clue. I just follow the rules. If your subtitles are off by an hour now you can use any number of free tools to adjust subtitle timecodes. Or set the start time code to 00:00:00:01.





Return to posts index

Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 6:45:01 pm

Interesting. So it is a Cinema Craft-problem and not a DVD-problem?

But the Cinema Craft SP-demo still allowed me to use 00:00:00:00 as timecode with no changing.



Return to posts index


Lucas Fazzary
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 7:06:48 pm

Yes you can do it in SP. They RECOMMEND you don't. Probably something they use in their algorithm in determining the pulldown or IVTC that causes an issue with the 00:00:00:00 timecode. In MP it probably changes it automatically so you cannot run into whatever issue it is they feel might happen. I have never used that timecode before ever. No Hollywood DVD use 00:00:00:00 either. It has always been best practice to use 01:00:00:00.

The people at Omni are pretty smart. If they say don't use 00:00:00:00 I would adjust your work flow to adhere to that warning.



Return to posts index

Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 8:15:40 pm

Thank you. I don't use SP at present - I just bought the MP about two months ago. I've mostly been using BitVice.

DVDSP's default state is 00:00:00:00, and some difficult bugs made me adopt the 00:00:00:00 timecode, to always be able to override.

But do you agree that it is a Cinema Craft issue and not a DVD issue?



Return to posts index

Lucas Fazzary
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 8:18:56 pm

I think it is confined to Cinema Craft, but I don't think it is a critical issue or bug.



Return to posts index

Anneli Engstrom
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 6:42:17 pm

Yes, I'm totally sure. My preset is of course changed to 00:00:00:00 as that is my favourite timecode. And I also make the timecoded mpeg1-files for the translators myself.

And... the engineers at Omni _have_ confirmed that their encoder changes the timecode, but try to make it sound like a good thing.

The only question is if anybody heard of 00:00:00:00 timecodes causing problems on DVD's.



Return to posts index

Eric Pautsch
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 13, 2008 at 9:05:56 pm

I'm shocked Omni would do this...thats interesting. I've never seen or heard of issues with 00:00:00:00 TC on DVDs.



Return to posts index

Johan Nordanfors
Re: 00:00:00:00 timecode
on Nov 17, 2008 at 2:53:24 pm

The direct answer to your question is no, a timecode starting at 00 is not, to my knowledge, violating any part of the dvd specification per se. But to elaborate on that answer I'd like to add that the use of 00:00:00:00 causes major problems in other areas of production and is pretty much banned within the video industry. There are a number of good reasons to avoid using 00 as first frame. Mainly it boils down to the fact that tapedecks and other equipment (encoders, decoders, image restoration hardware etc.) need pre-roll time to operate properly. If a program starts at 00:00:00:00 there can be no pre-roll. So that is why professionally mastered tapes never ever start at 00.

That said, what is to stop you from altering the TC to suit your specific needs? Well technically nothing as long as you stay clear of professional video equipment, apparently including CCE. However, note that it is rather good practice to keep the original TC from the mastertape throughout the dvd production, and most professionally mastered tapes would start at 01, 02 or 10 hours.



Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]