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layered menus and audio - Noah?

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Peter Ralph
layered menus and audio - Noah?
on Apr 21, 2007 at 2:27:55 pm

I understand DVDSP cannot create layered menus with audio - but is this a limitation of DVDSP or does it apply to all DVDs? Searching here I find Noah K saying "Photoshop layers eat up all the DVD laser's time- no room for sound or motion." Is there any mastering process that can combine layered menus and audio?


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Noah Kadner
Re: layered menus and audio - Noah?
on Apr 21, 2007 at 2:35:08 pm

It's a matter of basic DVD specifications- the only thing that can be loaded into a player's RAM is a single highlight layer. That frees up the laser to then load audio. If you use a group of photoshop layers there's no time for the laser to get the audio. Not to mention it causes there to be a pause each time the option is switched as a new layer has to be loaded. Trust me- I see less than 1 out of 50 Hollywood DVDs using Photoshop style layered menus for these very reasons.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of the DVX100 and Final Cut Pro!
http://www.callboxlive.com


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Peter Ralph
thankyou Noah - MUCH APPRECIATED!
on Apr 21, 2007 at 5:03:56 pm

reallY!!!!!


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Peter Ralph
Re: layered menus and audio - Yes-ah?
on Apr 24, 2007 at 2:44:05 pm

Noah

First I 100% agree with your advice about avoiding layered menus.

Chatting yesterday with another video guy about this issue he said:

"you can add audio to layered menus, but everytime you go to a new menu choice the audio will stop and start again from the beginning"

Obviously the stop/start is happening for the reasons you outlined above - and this makes using background music useless or at least very distracting. I can't really see much use for it, especially because of the delay of unloading the audio, unloading the menu, loading the new menu and then loading the new audio everytime you scroll to a new menu choice. Just switching menu choices in a layered menu is sluggish enough.

But just as a matter of interest do you know what DVD app would allow this functionality?


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Noah Kadner
Re: layered menus and audio - Yes-ah?
on Apr 24, 2007 at 3:46:27 pm

I'd ask him to show you a disc where this has been done.

Noah

Unlock the secrets of the DVX100 and Final Cut Pro!
http://www.callboxlive.com


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eric
Re: layered menus and audio - Yes-ah?
by
on Apr 24, 2007 at 7:29:28 pm

No authoring tool with allow continuous audio with layered menus. This is a DVD spec limitation unfortunately .

Eric


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WTS(JManz)
Re: layered menus and audio - Yes-ah?
on Apr 24, 2007 at 7:32:25 pm

You can (in a way) create the appearance of layered menus with audio in DVDSP. Navigation could (probably) will be sluggish on some players, but you could have audio. You basically create a series of menus that are identical to each other, with the exception of change of display state of a particular button or background element. You would use 'auto-activation' to cause the menu to move to the next display state 'invisibly'.

For example, let's say you have a two button menu and you want the background to change a bit, depending on what button you have selected. You would have two menus--one with the background set for button one, and the other for button two. On entry to that menu (and by stating 'menu' I mean the collection of both, with the viewer first accessing these menus with button one selected), you could have button one as the default selected button, and assign the menu you created with the background (background one for lack of a better imagination) designed for that button. Activating or clicking on button one will now take you to it's destination (clip, another menu, whatever button one was ultimately linked to). Button two on this menu would be set for auto- activation, so my simply selecting that button, it would 'jump' to your second menu where now button two is selected (that would be the defined button on menu entry) with the background now representing the graphics you wanted to display for button two selection. To the viewer, the 'switch' would generally occur without them noticing, but as with layered menus, all may not seem to be so seamless. The viewer would have to click the button to then actually navigate to button two's linked destination. Selecting button one on this second menu would be set for auto-activation back to you first menu. Both of these menus would allow you to add audio.

This could all be created in DVDSP. I think one of the Lord of the Rings dvd's had a chapter menu like this, with separate backgrounds and representative audio for a particular chapter/button selection. Looked and sounded good, but at least on the player I watched it on it was very slow to respond at times, and if viewed on a computer (and the viewer is using a mouse to navigate through the dvd) you have to click any of these types of buttons twice (once to cause auto-activation and the second to actually go to the link) which can be confusing. If you are navigating on the computer using the dvd player software virtual remote or if you are using an actual remote/set top player--then you don't have this issue.

Anyway, I'm sure the above is as clear as mud.

Jim


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WTS(JManz)
Re: layered menus and audio - Yes-ah?
on Apr 24, 2007 at 7:33:49 pm

Oh, and to be clear, the audio would start from the beginning each time 'auto-activation' occured. As posted before, you can't have the audio simply play through.

jim


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Peter Ralph
Re: layered menus and audio - Yes-ah?
on Apr 24, 2007 at 7:43:26 pm

interesting Jim - the two click dance with the computer mouse also seems necessary with layered menus.

anyway I found that with sonic scenarist 3.1 was the app used by the guy I was talking with. It seems you can add music to layered menus in scenarist, with the limitations Noah outlined above.

apologies for to playing with your name Noah - it is also my son's name.


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