FORUMS: list search recent posts

Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West

COW Forums : Cinematography

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Thomas Allen
Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 1, 2016 at 8:10:24 pm

I'm attempting to recreate this shot from Once Upon a Time in the West (in terms of composition):



This appears to be a wide angle lens. Deep focus also appears to be in play. I'm shooting on a Canon 600D, would a 14mm lens get me close? I don't currently own one. What do you folks think?

All you owe the public is a good performance
-Humphrey Bogart


Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 1, 2016 at 9:14:12 pm

Yep, very deep focus.... iris waaaay down. Considering Tonino Delli Colli was shooting in broad blasting daylight, that wasn't a hard exposure for him to hit.

As for lens, hard to say exactly... my widest prime (well, widest non-fisheye) is 18mm, and I think it would be about that field of view (with S35mm format).

Even though you don't have the camera/lens combo yet, there are phone apps that you can dial in the film format and focal length of your lens and it will show you the field of view.... sort of a poor-man's Fries viewfinder.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index

Thomas Allen
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 2, 2016 at 4:30:44 pm

I appreciate you taking the time to respond sir. Is achieving that level of focus doable on a dslr with a wide angle lens?

All you owe the public is a good performance
-Humphrey Bogart


Return to posts index


Todd Terry
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 2, 2016 at 4:48:23 pm

Sure...

There are three factors there determining depth of field... focal length of the lens, the aperture (f-stop), and the size of the sensor.

The wider the lens, the easier it is to get the deep focus (and that's a quite wide lens).

The higher the f-stop, the deeper the focus.

The smaller the sensor, the deeper the focus.

Since that is a very wide lens and shooting in direct sunlight like that you can use a very high (small) f-stop), it should not be difficult at all to achieve a very deep DoF.

If you don't have one already, hit iTunes or GooglePlay and download a depth of field calculator... there are several to choose from... or use an on-line one....

http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html

Just one quick example using that one... if my subject was five feet away, shooting 35mm format with an 18mm lens stopped down to f/16, then my depth of field would be from only about a foot and a half, all the way to infinity... very very deep indeed... with virtually everything in the frame in focus (unless it happened to be closer than 18 inches to the lens).

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index

Zeke Faust
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 3, 2016 at 5:01:25 am

Certainly it's possible, but stopping down that much has side effects. When you go past f16 to like f22 the focus will be deep, but the whole image will be soft. On one film I shot with a wide lens stopped down for deep focus I imported the footage only to find that the whole thing was blurry! So keep that in mind and decide what your priorities are (deep focus with soft image vs. more shallow focus with sharper image). Also, the small aperture will reveal ANY dust, hair, dirt or smudges on your lens and sensor, so make sure both are nice and clean.


Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 3, 2016 at 5:15:16 am

[Zeke Faust] "When you go past f16 to like f22 the focus will be deep, but the whole image will be soft."

Ehh... depends on your glass. With a lower-end lens (more likely DSLR lenses), perhaps you might see a little bit of that softness (which is likely there at all f-stops, but is more apparent at higher ones), but a higher-end real cine lens should be sharp as a tack at all f-stops, especially at higher ones.


[Zeke Faust] "Also, the small aperture will reveal ANY dust, hair, dirt or smudges on your lens and sensor"

If you have extremely deep focus and very close focus, it is indeed possible to focus on lens-surface things like smudges, dust, etc. Higher f-stops though have no effect on the revelation of any dust/dirt on the sensor. If you have a dirty sensor, it's just as likely to show at all f-stops... the aperture setting has nothing to do with what you might see at the film plane. Fortunately if you follow really good lens-changing practices (clean environments, uncapping the camera body as briefly as possible), it is extremely rare that a will need cleaning, unless you change lenses very frequently in dirty environments.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index


Thomas Allen
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 3, 2016 at 5:33:35 am

I'll be using a 16mm Rokonin cine wide angle lens on the Canon 600D. The lens will arrive tomorrow, I'll test it out then.

All you owe the public is a good performance
-Humphrey Bogart


Return to posts index

Gary Huff
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 10, 2016 at 11:15:37 pm

[Todd Terry] "Ehh... depends on your glass."

Actually, it depends on your sensor size. It takes longer to hit diffraction on, say, a photographic full frame sensor than it does on a m43 or 16mm sensor.


Return to posts index

Todd Terry
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 10, 2016 at 11:24:51 pm

[Gary Huff] "Actually, it depends on your sensor size."

I'll respectfully disagree that, while that is a factor, it is a minor one compared to the quality of the glass... at least that is my personal opinion/experience.

A pushing-ten-thousand-dollars Cooke 18mm S4/i is going to absolutely beat the pants off a $300 Canon 18mm SLR lens as far as sharpness goes, even stopped down to f/22 or beyond... regardless of the film format or sensor size.

It's really going to be a combination of a lot of factors.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



Return to posts index


Gary Huff
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 14, 2016 at 3:57:13 am

[Todd Terry] "l respectfully disagree that, while that is a factor, it is a minor one compared to the quality of the glass... at least that is my personal opinion/experience."

It's not about personal experience, it's about the laws of physics. Take a look at table four in this link.

A ten thousand dollar Cooke 18mm at f/22 on, say, a GH4 isn't going to be much different than that Canon because diffraction will eliminate the difference between the two.


Return to posts index

Thomas Allen
Re: Shot Recreation, Once Upon a Time in the West
on Mar 14, 2016 at 4:29:33 am

I'll post my results here once we've squared everything away. The feedback you've all given has been invaluable. I hope that's apparent in the results.

All you owe the public is a good performance
-Humphrey Bogart


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]