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True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor

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Travis Wine
True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:57:00 am

So I heard the secret sauce to help maintain a Motion Picture look to any film is by using a 28mm and a 50mm lens.

My camera "Canon C100" has a crop factor of 1.5, considering it has a super35mm and not full frame.

So when they say to use these two lenses, are they already compensating for the crop factor or do we need to compensate this by buying a wider lens - times the crop factor - to achieve the 28mm and 50mm length?


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Blaise Douros
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 9:59:20 pm

There's a hell of a lot more to it than just using two prime lenses...I wish it was that easy!

No, the C100 will not "compensate" for the crop, so your 50mm will act like a 75mm, and the 28mm will become a 52mm.

I don't know who was giving you this advice, so I couldn't say whether they were referring to Super35 or VistaVison as the reference for 35mm.


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Todd Terry
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:18:19 pm

Your 50mm lens will act/look and have the exact same field of view as a 50mm lens... on a S35mm cine camera. And the 28mm will be exactly the same as that lens on a cine camera.

I wish the camera manufacturers had never started using terms like "full frame" because it is massively misleading. They are forcing a comparison between traditional still-image and motion-image sizes, which is really comparing apples and oranges. The made-up term "full-frame" to one type of camera isn't the same as full-frame to another... more specifically, full-frame is not the same to a still camera as it is to a motion picture camera. The frame sizes are very different.

Why? That's because, if you'll remember back to the dark ages when you took snapshots with actual celluloid in your camera, a motion picture camera takes images with the film running vertically, whereas a still camera takes pictures with the film running horizontally. Ergo, the image size for a 35mm still camera is much larger than a 35mm motion picture camera.

Ergo, you have lots of people thinking that their 35mm-sensor cameras are "less than full frame," when actually they are completely full frame for a cine camera and exactly the same as they have been for more than 100 years.

There are still some larger-format photographers around (shooting 6x6, 6x7, etc., those Hasselblads aren't dead yet) that are shooting images a lot larger than either of those. I guess you'd have to call those Even-Fuller-Than-Full-Frame cameras.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Travis Wine
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:20:39 pm

Thanks Todd!

I appreciate your input.


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Todd Terry
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:27:59 pm

Sure thing... and I meant to address this....

"So I heard the secret sauce to help maintain a Motion Picture look to any film is by using a 28mm and a 50mm lens."

I don't know who said that, but it's a load of bunk...haha.

In fact, I'd say more likely the opposite is true... I think longer lenses look more cinematic than shorter lenses.

Take a 28mm lens, even if you have a fast one and shoot wide open with it, it's still going to have a very deep depth of field, which is just the nature of a lens that wide. And that, depending on a lot of factors (like lighting, camera moves, fps), can in fact look very "videoy."

It's going a bit against film trends (which do change over time), but more cinematic looks these days favor longer lenses. Sure, Woody Allen will shoot an entire long scene with only a 28mm or a 35mm, but that's not the norm (and most people credit him with works that are great storytelling, writing, and direction, not necessarily for the cinematic quality).

I usually have on hand 18mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 80mm, 120mm, and a 37-140mm zoom.... but the 50 and 80 are by far my go-to lenses.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Rick Wise
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:58:09 pm

Different strokes for different folks.... Michael Mann likes deep focus, these days achieved with wide lenses and hefty f/stops and high ISO. Most cinematographers prefer shallow depth of field, with wide-open lenses and long focal lengths. "Cinematic?" So many factors. With that C100 you can do just about any look you like, with lots and lots and lots of practice. Beginning with the lighting.

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
MFA/BFA Lighting and Camera Instructor Academy of Art University
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


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Blaise Douros
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 29, 2015 at 10:58:36 pm

Well put, Todd, on clarifying crop factors on cine cameras vs 35mm still cameras. I sort of tried when I mentioned VistaVision vs Super35, but you put it better.

There are so many other factors other than lenses that contribute to the cinematic-ness of a scene...lighting, sound, camera movement, camera dynamic range...You can make an EX1 look cinematic if you shoot it right. Don't believe it when anyone says they have one trick that will make it look cinematic. The real trick to making something look cinematic? Throw enough money at the right places :)


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Aaron Star
Re: True 28mm for Canon C100 Super35 Sensor
on Jul 31, 2015 at 3:09:51 pm
Last Edited By Aaron Star on Jul 31, 2015 at 3:10:55 pm

Like someone stated before, the C100 is the same size as a motion picture camera. The Full frame crap is still camera size. Get a series of prime lenses, that fit the C100, that are 18mm,25,35,50,65,85,135 T2. I worked a bunch of 35mm shows on Panavision and Arri BL-535, and 35-85 are the most common shots generally around a T4-8 for sharpness. You can shoot WFO-2.8, but with the camera moving you risk a lot of soft shots, which you see often in films and TV. The director/editor will always choose the performance of a soft shot.

With the C100, shoot ISO 850, c-log, keep the shutter close to 48th, 24fps, use NDs/pola to control T-stop, and lens choice of 35-85mm. Meticulously control lens flare or "hit."

APS-C = 35mm original Motion Picture size
Super35 = pushing of the gate size to fill the negative and not leave room for optical sound tracks. I think also it had to do with wide aspect ratios and saving film.

Super speed set which you can rent, but you will need the right mount.


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