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A different use for a 3-d cam.

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Mark Suszko
A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 2:26:15 pm

It occurs to me that a 3-d camera with independent control of left and right is an awesome camera for shooting 2-d interviews with one lens shooting the closeup and the other a perfect matching wide shot. Great for editing later, and the tracks stay locked in synch. Does anybody use one in this way?


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Todd Terry
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 3:16:46 pm

I think you never see that because all true 3D cameras (that I know of, and there are actually very few 3D setups in a native single camera), have both sides "married" together and you can't really control them independently.

More often 3D photography is two separate cameras married together in a beamsplitting rig that keeps everything perfectly aligned and the two new "virtual lenses" are in the neighborhood of the same distance as human eyes... but they are really two completely separate and independent cameras, just in a very very expensive and cumbersome rig.

So... you could shoot your two views with a setup like that, and have independent control over each camera. BUT... you're really just shooting with two cameras. So you might as well just shoot with two cameras like most of us always do when we need a setup like that... without the expense and extra set-up of a 3D rig.

If you are wanting that perfect matching set-up with both your wide shot and a closeup from exactly the same point of view, then it'd be easier just to shoot with a higher res camera (a 4K or 5K), so you can enlarge for the closeup. Most of the time though editing can really benefit from the two camera positions being somewhat different (even if just slightly)... which can more easily disguise content cuts when editing.

You're thinkin' though... and that's always a good thing. Well, usually.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Mark Suszko
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 3:24:43 pm

Why it appealed to me is that you reduce the stuff you have to haul and setup/teardown for two cameras. While I grok that you can fake a zoom in a 4k shot, that assumes I have the money for a 4k camera, and that I want to cut the 2-cam look in post. I was thinking more along the lines of live-switch to a recorder, with in-cammera ISO backuos.


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Todd Terry
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 3:41:08 pm

Like I said, I think it's a good theory... but in practicality you might be trading one problem for another. The chief reason that most of the 3D films released today were actually shot in 2D and then converted in 3D in post is because the 3D camera rigs are so time-consuming and cumbersome to use. I've never shot any 3D stuff myself (don't you love people who chime in about something they know nothing about?), but I think it's very telling that even though it costs them millions of dollars and tens of thousands of man-hours to painstakingly roto and convert 2D to 3D, they'd still rather do it that way than using a 3D rig in the first place.

I'm not sure, with the present cameras available, that you'd be saving any time, weight, or expense over just shooting two cameras.

Now IF there were a cheap-n-easy single 3D camera (like the little Panasonics) where you could completely and independently control both sides and what comes from each lens and get two separate live feeds out of each eyeball, then you might be on to something. I don't think such a thing exists though. And you'd be somewhat limited in framing... you'd have to frame your closeup lens then just take what you get out of the wide lens (which would likely be way too much headroom and/or undesired lookspace).

I have on my "killjoy" hat today. :)

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Mark Suszko
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 3:50:58 pm

"(don't you love people who chime in about something they know nothing about?)"



I see what you did there.


:-)


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Todd Terry
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 4:02:19 pm

Ha... well you are very perceptive.

And I'll completely admit that was directed entirely at myself.

As for 3D in general, I keep waiting for it to die... hate it. Tsk tsk... these kids today, with their rock-n-roll music and their hula hoops. Then again, I think I still have at least one rotary phone at home.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Mark Suszko
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 4:58:26 pm

Speaking oh hula hoops, google or youtube "hula hoop go-pro at burning man". Hypnotic video.


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Todd Terry
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 5:16:23 pm

That's a WILD effect... and pretty darn cool.

What I'd love to try is that setup with a really thin hoop... if you could make one that is thin but still very stiff, enough to "hula." Then use wire removal to get rid of the hoop entirely. You'd definitely have people going "Wow how did they get that shot??"

Very cool.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Jason Jenkins
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 9:10:31 pm

[Todd Terry] "it'd be easier just to shoot with a higher res camera (a 4K or 5K), so you can enlarge for the closeup."

I do this so much I've become an expert, except I shoot in 1080p then edit in a 720p timeline. It makes editing so much nicer. I use the camera lcd and an additional SmallHD monitor with 1:1 pixel mapping so I can see both my wide and close-up compositions simultaneously. If I compose correctly during the shoot I don't even need to adjust the framing of the close-up in the edit. I just apply my scale preset on every other clip and boom, I'm good to go!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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Mark Suszko
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 9:38:31 pm

I have a sort of personal rule about re-positioning the "virtual" close-up derived from the HD wide shot: I try to keep the eyes on both shots on the same horizontal line within the frame where I can. I feel it makes the cuts less jarring when a focal point in both shots stays the same.


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Todd Terry
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 10:08:40 pm

Good tip on the eyes.

When doing a "virtual closeup" I will also often add a little bit of an electronic tilt/pan right at the start of the closeup edit in post, which also really smooths the cut as well. That works especially well if you already are using a moving camera... depending on the needs of the project I'll often choose to shoot the talent with a short continuous-dolly arcing shot, or with what I call a "loose head" with the framing just gently wafting around a bit. In those instances adding a tiny half-second of a fake pan/tilt works really well.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Rick Wise
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 10:42:58 pm

I'm a little late jumping in here. I have shot with a 3-D rig. It's a monster! The technology has evolved quite a bit since that early enterprise, but the rigs remain huge and heavy. I'm with Todd: I have yet to see 3D work really well. Though we have to remember that it took DPs quite a time to learn how to use color well. So maybe it can be done. We are not there yet.

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


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Jason Jenkins
Re: A different use for a 3-d cam.
on Sep 19, 2012 at 10:52:23 pm

[Todd Terry] "depending on the needs of the project I'll often choose to shoot the talent with a short continuous-dolly arcing shot, or with what I call a "loose head" with the framing just gently wafting around a bit"

I prefer to just seat the talent on a swiveling, rolling, tilting office chair with armrests. There's so much movement I don't have to do a thing!

Jason Jenkins
Flowmotion Media
Video production... with style!

Check out my Mormon.org profile.


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