FORUMS: list search recent posts

422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please

COW Forums : Cinematography

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Sebastian Lloyd
422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 3:02:02 pm

Hello all, thought I'd ask for any suggestions people may have for cameras.

We're currently shooting on high end HDV (ha, high end), but we're pretty much exhausted the possibilities HDV offers, and just need more detail in the colours we're recording.

We're shooting models on white backgrounds in a well lit studio. We colour match the outfits to retouched stills - what we shoot must look as close as possible to the still coming to life.
For the most part this is just about ok on what we're using at the moment (a Sony HVR 270) but there's not enough detail in whites and extremely saturated colours.

So, assuming a budget of up to around £20k (a bit more in US$, but remember we get massive import duty on electronics so it's close to a 1:1 conversion), what do we want to look at?
I've a few ideas already, but won't bias the discussion with my thoughts just yet.

Many thanks in advance!


Return to posts index

john sharaf
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 3:18:07 pm

Sebastian,

The only 444 cameras are the Sony F35/F23/SWR9000,HDC1500 and Panasonic 3700 and all cost many times your budget and the Sony's must shoot on HDCAM-SR requiring a $75K deck to play back 444. The only cheap part about 444 is that Final Cut Pro can handle it with Pro Res codec.

What you do need is at least 422 color sampling and a properly setup camera with the matrtix adjusted to a DSC Chroma du Monde chart for accurate color reproduction, and a 10 bit recording format would be advantageous to allow post color correction without destroying the image. This leaves you with very little choice; I'd recommend a Panasonic camera that shoots 10 bit AVC-I codec. I'm not sure which one you can afford, but we're talking about their 500 and 2000 cameras. Their top-of-the-line 3700 is 444 capable although I don't believe it can record it, just output it to record on HDCAM-SR or directly into the computer.

JS





Return to posts index

Sebastian Lloyd
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 3:36:08 pm

Thanks John.
Yeah, 444 is probably a little excessive...
Any reason you've plumped for Panny over e.g. SOny's 422 xdcam camera?


Return to posts index


john sharaf
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 3:46:28 pm

Yeah, if color purity and ability to color correct is your major determining factor, the Panasonic's ability to record 10 bit in AVC-I codec clearly is superior. Remember 8 bit is 256 shades or gradations of gray and each color, 10 bit is 1024, four times as much, resulting in much more subtlety and accurate, less cartoon-look color. I am a fan (and owner) of four PDW700/800's but also own a 10 bit 444 camera for green screen and filmout purposes.

JS





Return to posts index

Sebastian Lloyd
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 3:54:11 pm

Excellent, I'll check it out then.
Any FCP/Color workflow problems you know of?


Return to posts index

john sharaf
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 4:15:32 pm

No problems per se, just make sure you have a proper RAID 5 storage with enough capacity and bandwidth to accommodate the amount of data that comes with standard quality ProRes 10bit 422. There are various flavors of ProRes, and they are all very good. Usually no need to go to the highest, known as HQ.

JS





Return to posts index


Sebastian Lloyd
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 4:20:13 pm

Yeah, we use prores a lot... it comes back to FCP from color as that for a start. A lovely happy codec.


Return to posts index

john sharaf
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 7, 2010 at 4:24:39 pm

Yes, but to reap the benefit of the 10 bit depth, you must use it from the beginning, so that what you send to Color for correction has all the information. You probably know that!

JS



Return to posts index

Tim Kolb
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 8, 2010 at 11:10:03 pm

[john sharaf] "There are various flavors of ProRes, and they are all very good. Usually no need to go to the highest, known as HQ."

Well, if we're tailking about greenscreen, I'd say go with HQ myself.

(4:2:2, 10 bit, 220 Mbps)



TimK,
Director, Consultant
Kolb Productions,


Return to posts index


Richard Herd
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 9, 2010 at 5:17:40 pm

What about rental options:
Thomson Viper.
Panavision Genesis.


Return to posts index

john sharaf
Re: 422 and 444 cameras - buying advice please
on Jan 9, 2010 at 5:26:10 pm

If you're going to offer a list of 10 bit 444 cameras, you must also include:

SONY F23
SONY F35
SONY SRW900

But more practical would be any HD camera that outputs 10 bit 422 through the HD-SDI port (like PDW700/800, F900R, EX3. etc) and record on AJA KiPro in the 10 bit ProRes codec. The advantage over the current HDV method will be dramatic.

JS





Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]