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Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?

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clyde villegas
Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 3:11:22 am

I just read this article:

http://www.dv.com/columns/columns_item.php?articleId=196604392

With new DSLRs with full frame sensors shooting HD, I'm now a bit hesitant to buy a Panasonic HVX200 or a Canon HDV (whatever model) or other comparable camcorders. The DSLRs don't need DOF adapters; the full frame sensor will probably make it shoot more film-like than with any other currently available video camera (except the Red). Do you think our camcorders will meet it's death soon? I think everybody needs to wait and see before buying a new camcorder


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Steve Wargo
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 7:27:13 am

Sorry but those cameras will not have the functions that are necessary for production. For starters, what about sound?

Steve Wargo
Tempe, Arizona
It's a dry heat!

Sony HDCAM F-900 & HDW-2000/1 deck
5 Final Cut (not quite PRO) systems
Sony HVR-M25 HDV deck
2-Sony EX-1 HD .


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clyde villegas
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 10:56:46 am

Yes you are right. But what I'm thinking of is if they cost only around $1,000, then a camcorder built around that technology will probably be in the neighborhood of $7,000 (or probably less). That will definitely be something to watch out for.


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Todd Terry
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 12:28:42 pm

[Steve Wargo] "For starters, what about sound?"

Well... ya know film cameras don't record sound either. And are the REDs sound-enabled yet?... early ones weren't.

But yes, they would be a rather combersome production tool.... at least right now. Maybe in the future.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Eric Cannon
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 4:38:36 pm

This only changes so much in my outlook... I mean when all is said and done(with lenses and accessories) you've spent as much as you would buying an HVX... HVX also is great for audio and comes with a 16gb card now.

The DSLR for HD video is a good idea and concept, but popular features have been done with way less(XL1). I feel that if you know your equipment you can have beautiful results with whatever you have.

"None but ourselves can free our minds"


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Rick Wise
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 4:59:34 pm

There is ALWAYS a better camera about to come out. If you need a new camera now and can afford to buy one -- or justify the expense given probable future earnings -- then buy. If there's no rush, then wait. But if you don't buy because you want the latest and best, you can never buy.

There is also the issue of price. A fully equipped Red, including lenses, is going to run around $50,000. You can buy an EX1 or 3 for a fraction of that price. Or, you can go much cheaper with an under $1,000 Canon HDV30.

It is unlikely that full-size chips, such as on the Red, or on the upcoming Sony F35, are going to be "affordable" for most buyers for a long time to come. The 1/2" chip on the EX1 or 3 is an amazing price break-through. Everything else in this price range remains based on 1/3" or 1/4" chips.

To my mind, for what it's worth, the cameras to consider today (not tomorrow, mind you, but today) are in the roughly $7-8,000 range:

--for doc: Sony Z7u, Panasonic HVX170
--for dramatic work: Sony EX1 or 3.



Rick Wise
director of photography
Oakland, CA
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Randy Lee
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 6:57:27 pm

Has SD even died out yet? I would think not. HD and HDV aren't going to die out any time soon, either. They will be replaced by better technology, but that normally takes quite a while to come down to a consumer or even prosumer price-point. By then, we're invested in and using HD. We're not all going to change directions at once just because there's a new gadget on the market.

On the other hand, word on the street is that DSLRs are about to become obsolete. If you believe that Red can do what they claim to do with the currently being redesigned Scarlet, that is.


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christopher nguyen
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 10:55:07 pm

Can't ever go wrong with a 24p camera. Look at the movie "28 days later". It was shot on an XL2.

Christopher
TV Arts Program
California State University Dominguez Hills


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Rick Wise
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 10, 2008 at 11:08:22 pm

There have been a lot of good movies shot on SD, including 60i. As has been pointed out over and over, it's not the camera, its the filmmaker(s). Sure we want the best "looking" video possible. A great cameraman can make great video with ANY video camera, provided he is free to choose angles, lighting, time of day, etc. to maximize the possibilities and provided he is working with or is him/her-self an inventive filmmaker.

The choice of camera is very secondary.

Rick Wise
director of photography
Oakland, CA
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Eric Cannon
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 13, 2008 at 5:29:08 pm

28 days later was not even shot with a 24p mode... It was actually partially shot on an XL 1.

"None but ourselves can free our minds"


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Todd Terry
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 13, 2008 at 5:39:09 pm

That's right... if I recall from the production notes I read about that film (it's been a long time since I read that), it was shot with multiple PAL XL1s so they could shoot 25fps... which was transferred to 24fps film. Since there is only 4% difference in the speed it was (more or less) unnoticable and they were able to frame-for-frame transfer without worrying about all the complicated pull-down math or processes. I think they made some different lens choices, but just stock XL1 bodies with no DoF lens converters or anything.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Mark Suszko
Re: Will current HDV and HD cameras die soon?
on Oct 20, 2008 at 9:45:36 pm

Old comedy bit I think I remember seeing on Rowan and Martin's "Laugh-In":

"New Soviet pocket video camera a leap forward in portable technology"
"That still looks big, Dan."
"Well, you have to wear the special pants with it".
The visual part of the gag; a full-size tube camera and turret lens, stuffed into the special leg-length pocket of the pants like an enormous goiter.

That's what this thread reminds me of. People listening more to marketing propaganda than common sense. There's always something new coming around the corner that may or may not make your existing rig obsolete, but "obsolete" is a relative term. People are still buying up old Auricons and 'blads and whatever else from Ebay and using them. Did they not get the memo the cameras are too old?:-)

I would say the bigger problem is that the continued fracturing and mutation of formats and standards means that you just can't tell clearly when anything is past it's prime or not. Maybe you don't need to. The DSLR as a motion cam, well, heck, they've been using that at Aardman for Wallace and Gromit movies for years already. Of course, their actors hold still for long periods of time, but you get the idea. I understand this new one can shoot real time motion in a new way, but as has been mentioned "not all accessories included, some assembly required". Not everything barely out of the lab is ready for prime time, and unless it really offers a unique benefit for your specific needs, there's no reason to panic. The camera is just a tool to tell the story with: if it still does that to your satisfaction and you can make money with it, it's not obsolete.

You can sit paralyzed with fear of buying "the next MII" all you want, but it doesn't get any work done or stories told. Plan on making back the price of any camera purchase in the first year, whatever that takes, so that it pays for itself every time thereafter, and stop distressing yourself over might-have-beens and things to come.

This race is not a sprint; it's a marathon, and you have many laps to go yet.


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