FORUMS: list search recent posts

Cinevate Brevis35

COW Forums : Cinematography

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
FlowMotion
Cinevate Brevis35
on Nov 15, 2007 at 3:39:45 am

Anybody here used the Cinevate Brevis35 35mm lens adapter?

http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php/products/


Return to posts index

Todd at Fantastic Plastic
Re: Cinevate Brevis35
on Nov 15, 2007 at 5:19:25 am

I've never used the Brevis35, but I'm a huge fan of lens converters (I shoot with the XLH1 and a P+S Technik Mini35 almost everyday)....

... but I HAVE seen some really impressive test footage from the Brevis35, especially considering the dirt cheap price.

We have a little HV20 to use as a crashcam, and I have been planning to buy a Brevis35 for use with it (among the really good test footage I've seen was an HV20 demo). It's nice that you can get one of these tiny/cheap units with a real PL mount. Hopefully it will be pretty sweet. I will give a review here as asap.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index

FlowMotion
Re: Cinevate Brevis35
on Nov 15, 2007 at 5:47:01 am

Thanks Todd,

I'm familiar with your setup thanks to your Creative Cow magazine article (which I read with great interest). The P+S Technik is out of my range, but after 10 or so hours of web research, it seems that the Brevis35 may be the best lens converter in the low end of the price range. Cinevate is due to release an optical flip module any time that should improve the workflow as well. Looking forward to your review.


Return to posts index


Todd at Fantastic Plastic
Re: Cinevate Brevis35
on Nov 15, 2007 at 3:47:13 pm

I agree, the P+S Technik is not for everyone... it is definitely the "Rolls Royce" of lens converters, but it does come with a related pricetag. I generally recommend it for cinematographers who will be shooting relatively high-end jobs at least a couple of days a week or more... less than that and it's a bit hard to justify the cost (although I will say that it is one of the best-designed and best-built pieces of hardware that we've ever had).

I didn't know that Cinevate was coming out with a "flip" version of the Brevis35... I will have to check that out. Now that MAY be a good thing, or maybe NOT...depending on what or how you shoot. The DOWNside is that it will be more light-hungry... the prisms required to "right" the image in the higher-end units do suck up a fair bit of light... at least one stop, maybe as much as two. That's why superspeed lenses are most useful with "right side up" converters like the P+S Technik, MovieTube, etc. Depending on your shooting circumstances (and how much lighting you like to do for interiors, especially), you MIGHT find that you'd prefer to live with the "upside down" image rather than increase your lighting needs. And depending on your camera, it might not be such a big deal... for instance, as I said we had been planning to buy a Brevis35 to use with our little Canon HV20 crashcam... that camera is so tiny it would be just as easy to mount it upside down, thus avoiding both light-loss AND having to flip the image in post.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index

Flowmotion
Re: Cinevate Brevis35
on Nov 15, 2007 at 7:11:42 pm

It's not a new version of the Brevis, it's actually a module that fits between the camera and the Brevis. According to the website, light loss is less than 1 stop with the Brevis and flip module together!


Return to posts index

Anthony Miles
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 19, 2007 at 5:35:18 am

Todd,
I have a Brevis 35 and have gotten both very good and some not so great results.

1. User error. Really make sre you have decent monitoring as on the Canon camera line the viewfinder/view-screen LCD (XHA1 and XLH1) and on an SD monitor it is very difficult to see if the element is vibrating. So don't forget to double check that you turned it on. :-) Sounds silly but on a set that is working fast, under pressure, not hard to forget when you are new to adapters. I made the mistake f relying on a Sony portable SD Field monitor and had both focus issues and a few shots where the screen was not moving.

Not sure if you have actually tried to turn a Canon camera upside down but unfortunately they are smart little electronic devices and seem to recognize and compensate by flipping the image right side up, very strange (HV20 and XHA1). I would like to know if yours does this as well.

The lens mount is a bit tricky as well, as you have to set the lens calimation/back focus yourself. Unlike a standard video camera lens you have to make sure you have it set exactly right otherwise your focus marks based on distance will not be accurate. So if you are relying on measured focus you could be in for a nasty surprise.

The light loss is quite minimal with fast still lenses in my experience. I used nikon mount still lenses with maybe a half stop of light loss, minimal, I was amazed as I had used another adapter and had much more light loss. Also, it is amazing what you can do with a wide still lens as far as field of view compared to the onboard lenses on the little HD cameras.

That said once you have it set up and have practiced the workflow you can get some really nice looks. Really helps cut the video edge when shooting 24p material. IMHO, the Brevis 35 is not for he timid or rushed. By the way, I would be very interested in selling my Brevis as I just don't use it that much. It is in great shape.

Hope that helps.
Anthony Miles


Return to posts index


Todd at Fantastic Plastic
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 19, 2007 at 6:45:05 am

Thanks for the info, Anthony...

I don't know too much about the Brevis35... I've just toyed with the idea of trying one.

As I said I have use my P+S Technik almost every day for almost two years now so I'm very familiar with DoF conversion... but my experience has been limited to one converter and one camera. Interesting to hear other views about other ones. I'm learning that, like a lot of cinema gear, you seem to get what you pay for. I also probably would forget to turn the darn thing on... my converter starts and stops when you pull camera trigger, so it's easy to get lazy.

Interesting observation about turning a Canon upside down. I've never noticed that. We shoot with an XLH1 daily and I know that it doesn't have that pecularity. I do have an HV20 that we have had for about six months... but we bought it just as a crashcam and to be honest I've probably switched it on about five times (although always impressed). I'm gonna turn it upside down tomorrow and see what happens... if I can find it!


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index

Anthony Miles
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 19, 2007 at 4:06:55 pm

Thanks Todd,
Do you have to calimate the P+S technic or does it just hold with PL mount lenses?

For everyone else interested in adapters:

For what it is worth, I think Cinevate has a new lens mount for Brevis35 that helps with this, but I am not into just dropping another 200-300 bucks to find out as suggested by the company as I was disappointed the way it worked when I first purchased it? I thought the thing should just work, and it was really disclosed how this worked prior to purchasing. (Maybe, I am just a sissy. The new version may just do that) It does give great results after you get it set up. I just don't trust myself to calimate the lens on this type of devise. Sure, I can set back focus on an HDW f-900 with a broadcast lens no problem, but that seems much simpler to properly execute repeatably.

If they offered me a healthy discount to send my Brevis35 HD in and get an upgrade I would do it in a second. And if I could get that flip I would do that as well, then it would be much more user friendly. Sorry this is a bit of a Rant. I just get tired of products that are marketed and sold and are not quite all the way there (which it may be now). In my experience the Letus XL was the worst, as it was so close to being fantastic for not to much money. At least Cinevate has a forum for support and will respond to email within a day or two.

The RedRock M2 did just work once set up, but it needed quite a bit more light. We used it on a JVC and were able to hack the viewfinder, flipped the LCD 180, so I could operate handheld without an external monitor. Worked like a charm. That flip is a valuable piece of the equation to me.

My advice to anyone interested in getting a lens adapter would be:

If you have the money to throw at it to test go for it, if you are tight at all, I would go post on their boards to see if you could rent one in your area to try it before you buy. That will save you a bit of buyers remorse and you will understand what you are getting into, especially without a flip option.

Cheers,
Anthony Miles


Return to posts index

Todd at Fantastic Plastic
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 19, 2007 at 4:34:10 pm

[Anthony Miles] "Thanks Todd,
Do you have to calimate the P+S technic or does it just hold with PL mount lenses?"


Hi Anthony... you just put the PL mount lenses on the P+S Technik Mini35 and you are good to go. There is an easy to use backfocus adjustment (although it requires an allen wrench), and I check it every now and then (maybe every three or four weeks with a good monitor and test chart) but it is always spot on and has never required additional tweaking since the first setup.

I actually cannot say enough good things about the P+S Technik... it is one of the best built, best designed, and easy to use pieces of equipment that we have ever had. They only downside is the price, they are waaaaaay expensive and thus quite painful on the wallet. We paid a fair bit more for the converter than we did for the camera itself (and we have one of the more expensive HDV cameras, XLH1). I really wrestled with making that big and painful an investment (especially since I knew lenses were going to cost even more than the converter), but it has paid off in spades and I am completely happy with the setup.

I think these lens converters are pretty much like most any other equipment in our industry.... you get what you pay for. A P+S Technik may cost ten times as much as a Brevis35 (or a Letus or whatever), but if it is ten times better then it can be worth it, depending on your situation. My recommendation is aways this: for real hard-core cinematograhers who are out there in the trenches shooting every day on mid-to-high-end projects, P+S Technik is the way to go... hands down. For others... say guys who do not make their living as full-time cinematographers, or maybe are trying to shoot an inexpensive indie feature, or simply can't afford to spend that kind of money... there is a rental market for the P+S Technik Mini35s, and you can find them in some rental houses. Or... play with some of the cheaper ones, many people do get good results... just budget in a lot of time for testing in advance, and a reasonable amount of time for tweaking during the actual shoot itself.

Incidentally, you can occassionally find P+S Technik converters cropping up on eBay (usally an older 200 or 300 series) and I have seen them go in the $3-4K range.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index


Anthony Miles
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 19, 2007 at 4:40:30 pm

Thanks Todd.
I have enjoyed ready your posts here and appreciate the feed back on the Mini35 XLH1 combo, I really like the H1. and can see the power of that combination. For me it would be a rental for sure.

This is why I was so interested in the Letus XL, as it mounted directly to the H1 and had the flip. I think it was $900-1200, but money that was basically thrown away.

Happy Holiday,
Anthony Miles


Return to posts index

Anthony Miles
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 20, 2007 at 5:33:44 pm

If anyone is interested, I was back at cinevate.com after some time and... and it appears they are making strides with brevis35 and accesories.

I got as response form their guys based on an email in a few minutes on wanting to order their flip module for the Brevis.

Also, it appears there is more and better information available for people to get up and running with the little Techie Gizmo.

As soon as it is available, (2-3 weeks they say) I will most likely buy the flip option, as It would make a huge work flow improvement for the lens adapter shooting use in my business. They claim only an added .2 stops of light loss with the flip option. Which would be very usable for me.

Best to all,
Anthony Miles


Return to posts index

Danny Grizzle
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 28, 2007 at 7:14:53 am

Anyone interested in this topic should check out Philip Bloom's website and extensive examples. If you poke around, you can find some large file downloads that are stunning.

I've always blown off the idea of 35mm converters. The whole principle of operation just sounds crazy. But seeing is believing!

http://www.philipbloom.co.uk/



Return to posts index


Todd at Fantastic Plastic
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Dec 28, 2007 at 8:24:23 am

[Danny Grizzle] "I've always blown off the idea of 35mm converters. The whole principle of operation just sounds crazy. But seeing is believing!"

Oh, they work (at least the good ones do) and work well. I have used the P+S Technik Mini35 almost every day for pushing two years now, and must say it is quite the miracle tool.

I used to shoot thousands of feet of 35mm every year, but since I have started using the lens converter I have literally not even cracked open the cases on our film cameras. I should sell them, but sentiment keeps me hanging on to them. I had one semi-big-shot director come in from Dallas for a shoot... he had originally planned for us to shoot 35mm but he reluctantly agreed to try shooting HD with the lens converter. He was blown away by the result (and no changing mags every four minutes!).

They work indeed... although I would recommend buying (or renting) the highest-end one that you can afford... and the very best primes (superspeeds highly recommended) that you can get your hands on.

Most of these converter demos really concentrate on "beauty shots"... but here's a link to a commercial campaign with more "typical" day-to-day footage. I'm not saying they are the greatest spots in the world (was very low budget and produced very quickly) but it does demonstrate the filmic DoFs. And yes, the acting was supposed to be that bad.

http://www.fantasticplastic.com/media/RFCU-1.mpg

http://www.fantasticplastic.com/media/RFCU-2.mpg

http://www.fantasticplastic.com/media/RFCU-3.mpg



T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






Return to posts index

John Rerucha
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Mar 26, 2009 at 5:10:27 pm

Do you still have the adapter for sale?


Return to posts index

Anthony Miles
Re: HV 20 Brevis upside down hitch - Cinevate Brevis35
on Mar 26, 2009 at 6:01:17 pm

Yes, I do. hve teh flip and I just upgraded it to the latest mp.1 microprocessor controlled version as well. I am willing to sell just the adapter or adapter and rod and rails system separately. email me at: ( anthony "@" 4thwalltvandfilm.com) if you would like more details.


Best regards,
Anthony Miles
DP, Editor 4th Wall Productions, LLC
http://4thwalltvandfilm.com



Return to posts index


Davide Marcone
Re: Cinevate brevis35
on Feb 15, 2010 at 9:38:20 am

I used the Brevis with Nikon optics for three work, I am very pleased with the performance even if we find the right square.
I placed the first of three works put online.
A presto!







Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]