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Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?

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michael
Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 6:34:52 pm

I'm looking to do a very very low budget music video. It's a SIMPLE concept and we can get the whole thing done with approx 1,200 to 1,600 feet of film (3 or 4 400" loads). I've called around a bit and it seems that the prices are just through the roof. I know that Fotokem and Technicolor charge a lot because they're good. Is there a "secret" place where I can get S16 film developed and transfered to digibeta without spending a small fortune?

We're really trying to avoid shooting on VIDEO or Super-8. Any suggestions?

Thank you,
Michael


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David Jones
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 7:09:08 pm

I don't know how to put this, other than just saying...
Use the tools that your budget allows for!

If your budget won't support a super 16 shoot,
then use the tools the budget will support,
Or have the client increase the budget.


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michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 7:29:55 pm

What a horrible thought. Letting money be the deciding factor.
I know there are labs that charge less.


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Mike Most
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 7:47:00 pm

>>What a horrible thought. Letting money be the deciding factor.

What planet do you live on? Here's a flash: Money ***IS*** the deciding factor. If you have it, you can do whatever you want. If you don't, you can't. Simple.

>>I know there are labs that charge less.

And you acquired this knowledge... how??
FotoKem is one of the most reasonably priced labs in the country, and they specialize in student and low budget work. If you can't afford it, you can't do it.


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Michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 7:57:45 pm

Mike-

I'm from a planet called the working middle class. Creatively speaking, and otherwise, I try not to be controlled by money (or lack of in this case). That's hard for you to understand?

By the way, contrary to what you wrote- Fotokem is one of the MOST expensive labs.



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john sharaf
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 8:11:20 pm

Michael,

Because I work mostly with video tape now, I must admit that I am not familiar with current lab prices, but I can tell you that in my student days at UCLA film school, Fotokem was a favorite lab because of their low prices, student discounts and favorable credit terms.

As I recall they allowed me the better part of several years to pay off the 1st trial and release print of my thesis film, which I was required to submit in order to graduate and get my degree.

I think most labs are open to negotiate a discount for first-timers in the hope that they'll cultivate a career long loyalty which can payoff big time when you bring them a long form project later. Give it a try!

Of course, this is one of the main reasons why the DVPRO100 and HDCAM formats are ploriferating so quickly. I think even in the case of your 1200-1600' film job, if you get a good one day rental price on a Varicam you might find the savings significant as opposed to film stock, developing and telecine. With the 24p function and electronic imititation of "cine gamma" the resulting image, especially when viewed on a CRT or other monitor (as most music videos are) is very similar.

Good luck,

JS


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Michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 8:26:50 pm

John-

Thank you very much. I appreciate the information. I've been on the phone with a couple different people down at Fotokem- I'm not a student so I don't qualify for those discounts, but perhaps it's just a matter of speaking to the right people. I'll give it another go!

I'm starting to think that the varicam is more of an option- I'm sure if treated properly in post in can be made to look like 16mm.

Cheers!

Michael


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john sharaf
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 15, 2005 at 8:58:15 pm

Michael,

It's actually a matter of treating it correctly when you shoot! As I said the camera can be setup to imitate the gamma curve of film stock and in combination with the 24p frame rate and careful "film style" lighting and camera operation, believe me, you'll fool a lot of people.

Post production, especially, the sophisticated Da Vinci type of color correction is the same for both film and video, and frankly should be avoided when cost is an issue (as it seems to be with you). This is another aspect where the WYSIWYG nature of HD production can actually save you time and money, and help you get the look you want right from the GITGO. Of course, some skill is required to do so, but the same is really true with lighting and exposing film.

JS


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tony salgado
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 16, 2005 at 2:57:36 am



One of the secrets to getting a good deal is the art of wheeling and dealing. If you do not allow money to control you then you better be a damn good deal maker.

Hire an experienced producer who has many industry and facility contacts.

That is how many productions find the money they don't have to make their production a reality.

The high end labs charge more because of the experience and caliber of their personell, as well as having state of the art equipment, a full time engineering staff and lots of overhead.


Tony Salgado


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Mike Most
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 16, 2005 at 3:39:02 am

>I'm from a planet called the working middle class. Creatively speaking, and otherwise, I try not to be >controlled by money (or lack of in this case). That's hard for you to understand?

Quite frankly, yes. You can't buy a Bentley if you only have $10,000. And you can't buy a house in Malibu if you only have $150,000. And you can't shoot on film if you can't afford the processing and printing/transfer costs, regardless of how creative you think you are and regardless of how much you might want it.

What I find hard to understand is why you think you have some inalienable right to do this, or to demand that companies change their rates to allow you to.




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Michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 16, 2005 at 4:08:22 am

Mike Most-

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I can understand where you're coming from and trust that the labs that charge a premium for their services share your view.

Don't forget that the MAJORITY of these labs are usually dealing with companies wielding TONS of money... so it's not a big deal to ask for a big buck. Good for them.
I however, am not currently in the position to pay that kind of money. I don't think that means I shouldn't get to make pretty pictures. Apparently, you do.

Just for the record though


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Mike Most
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 16, 2005 at 5:45:33 pm

>I was looking for a lab that would give me a great deal on Super16mm development and telecine. Guess >what! I found one


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Michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 17, 2005 at 4:17:33 pm

Mike Most-

I'm sorry, but I think you misinterpruted my original intent, grossly. Your reply's have been fairly aggressive from the the get go. It's seems as if you're taking my looking for an inexpensive lab as a personal attack... you're so offended. Why?
Are you here on The Cow to throw your weight around and bash peoples questions or what? I thought this was supposed to be at least semi-supportive environment.

All that I did was ask for some advice on where to find an inexpensive lab... some alternatives perhaps.
That's it.


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tony salgado
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 18, 2005 at 12:24:18 am



Michael,


You will find that working at night with the junior colorist will cost less if you are willing to work the late hours.

The first rate quoted by an account executive at any facility is never set in stone if they really want your business. You need to be an aggressive wise producer/consumer and ask for a better rate based on their schedule, people, fact you will pay in cash or cashier's check.

But you must be reasonable and not ask for the $500/hr room at $50/hr.

You could also consider getting a best light transfer and finish off the color correction using FCP or other color correction system on a NLE.



Good luck,


Tony Salgado




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Mike Most
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 18, 2005 at 1:01:57 am

Tony's reply illustrates very well what I've been trying to say. If you want a lower rate than they normally charge, you need to give them a reason to let you have that rate. Since you can't really promise them future business, you need to make it attractive to them to accommodate you - coming in at odd hours, working with junior colorists, paying in cash (although they'd probably ask for COD anyway, for a one-shot deal) - all of these things show you're willing to accommodate their needs. That's the way it should be, not the other way around - which is the way you were making it sound.


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Michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 19, 2005 at 12:04:09 am

Tony,

Thank you for your advice!

M-


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Richard Blakeslee
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 18, 2005 at 9:27:38 pm

Check out Bono's http://www.bonofilm.com/home.asp

They seem to have cheap rates. I don't know about their quality, I ran across them putting together a low budget (film) music video budget--it hasn't happened yet so I don't know their work. They've been doing it a long time. When I was in LA I used FotoKem all the time. A great lab.

Cheers,

Richard


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Michael
Re: Where can I have S16mm film developed and telecined inexpensively?
on Jul 19, 2005 at 12:04:51 am

Richard-

Thank you. I'll check them out too.

Cheers!

michael


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