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What gel to use?

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Durwood Hibbard
What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 4:09:08 pm

Good Day,

I have a 3 light set that uses 5100K CFL's. I like to be able to match tungsten lighting with those bulbs at times. What color gel would be suggested to acheive this?

Thanks


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Rick Wise
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 4:25:33 pm
Last Edited By Rick Wise on Dec 29, 2013 at 4:26:01 pm

Do you mean you plan to mix those CFLs with true, 3200K tungsten light?

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


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Durwood Hibbard
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 1:00:48 am

yes that is what I was thinking. Or at least close.


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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 5:26:07 pm

This PDF should give you just about everything you need to know:

http://www.iatse728.org/files/ColorCorrectionFilters.pdf

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Rick Wise
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 7:07:32 pm

Joe, those are all lens filters, not light filters.

In this case, the questioner needs to know what kind of color correcting filters to put on his CFL lights to match "tungsten," though he has not yet specified if he's talking about true 3200K lights or something else. This Lee table, http://www.leefilters.com/lighting/technical-list.html, is a starting point. Oddly, Lee considers "daylight" to be 6500K, not 5600K.

As noted elsewhere, we have to pay attention to two color axes: red-blue, and magenta-green. The CFLs will emit a green spike, so probably he'll need around 1/4 minus-green (magenta)(Lee 249) to correct for that issue. As for the red-blue, some form of CTO, probably 3/4 strength (Lee 285, or else both 1/2 CTO and 1/4 CTO.)

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


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Dennis Size
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 8:40:41 pm

To add to what Rick said, some fluoros (the KINO Diva for example), sometimes have a tendency to be a little "pink". I find myself often using an 1/8 Plusgreen to correct.
Rosco also makes a wonderful 3/4 CTO (a favorite of mine) which would work quite well for you -- Rosco's CINEGEL #3411.
DS



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Craig Alan
Re: What gel to use?
on Jan 3, 2014 at 3:08:48 am

A rep from Kino told me that they are a bit pink but that this improves after x number of hours of use.

Do you think this is true? I had called them when I noticed the different temp compared to our fresnels (all studio temp).

Mac Pro, macbook pro, Imacs (i7); Camcorders: Panasonic AG-HPX170/AG-HPX250P, Canon HV30/40, Sony Z7U, VX2000, PD170; FCP 6 certified; write professionally for a variety of media; teach video production in L.A.


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Dennis Size
Re: What gel to use?
on Jan 3, 2014 at 6:57:38 am

Yes they are pink .... no they don't improve to a perfect match for tungsten.
DS



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Durwood Hibbard
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 1:02:05 am

where do you guys learn this stuff?


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Dennis Size
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 3:50:00 am

research, past practice, analyzing manufacturers specifications, trial and error (and remembering what worked and what didn't), PLUS years of experience.
DS



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Rick Wise
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 8:49:33 am

I'd add to that list: working with smart gaffers and grips who know much more than you do.

Some of this you can pick up in books such as Box's "The Set Lighting Technician's Handbook" and "Cinematography" by Blain Brown. (His lighting book is great except that it's filled with typos. I have my students read from it and point out the sometimes very significant errors as we go.)

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


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Todd Terry
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 3:49:20 pm

[Rick Wise] "I'd add to that list: working with smart gaffers and grips who know much more than you do."

I'll second what Rick says. You can learn so much by osmosis just from hanging around people who really know what they are doing.

I've told this story before, but it's very true... I learned more useful and practical knowledge in the first four hours on a real movie set than I did in four years of film school. And that, sadly, is NOT an exaggeration.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Rick Wise
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 6:26:30 pm

Well, now, Todd, I don't know about your school. I'll have to stand up for the film school where I teach. I do get emails from former students telling me that I prepared them well, so that on the set they were able to really help from the first day. I'd add also that all that learning takes on new meaning when you get out there and have to perform or else. A lot of things that may have been somewhat abstract ideas (like the inverse square law) suddenly become real on the set.

I do think one can learn well by apprenticing without any school training. But if you can afford it, 3-4 years of film school will give you a huge leg up provided you pick the right school. Among the many benefits: networking with fellow students whose work you admire. Those bonds can go a long way when you are out there struggling to make a living at what you love to do.

The bottom line is, not matter which route(s) you pick, it will take both talent and hard, hard work to succeed in this business/art form. If you get some good luck too, so much the better, but that will never replace the first two.

Rick Wise
Cinematographer
San Francisco Bay Area
http://www.RickWiseDP.com


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Mark Suszko
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 7:52:39 pm
Last Edited By Mark Suszko on Dec 30, 2013 at 7:53:43 pm

At the risk of veering this further off-topic, I will respond to Rick that I believe the best results come when you couple the "book-learnin'" from formal courses with "practicum" work as an intern or volunteer. The hands-on experience helps set the lecture material in place and create a true understanding of what the hardware can do if you use proper technique. And it helps an autodidact in the field if he or she learns to recognize key examples of work by past masters. It creates a kind of shorthand, making it easier to communicate what is wanted on the set, if you all speak the same filmic or stage language.


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Todd Terry
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 30, 2013 at 8:52:12 pm

[Rick Wise] " I'll have to stand up for the film school where I teach. "

And rightly so, Rick... it all depends on where you go. I'm not hatin' on film school by ANY stretch... just hatin' on my school. I know many people who say their collegiate film experience was excellent. Mine, sadly, was pitiful.

I don't think I had even one instructor or professor (and again, I'm not exaggerating) that had set foot on a film location, a soundstage, or even in a television station in the previous 20 years. Probably 30. In some cases, maybe 40. They brought zero practical knowledge to the table... and weren't any better at teaching out of a book, either. Heck, there was more than one instance where I wound up getting called up to teach a class myself because I already knew more about it than the so-called instructor. I know that sounds pompous (and yeah, it is), but it's true.

In hindsight, I would have (or should have) killed to go to USC or NYU or any one of a half dozen other schools with legitimate and respectable film programs. But I was an ignorant kid who didn't know any better.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Joseph W. Bourke
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 31, 2013 at 3:42:45 am

I'm glad you caught that, Rick. I guess I just wasn't paying attention when I looked at the chart. Sorry for taking things in the wrong direction.

Joe Bourke
Owner/Creative Director
Bourke Media
http://www.bourkemedia.com


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Dennis Size
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 6:15:26 pm

5100?? What company's fluoros are you using? Do they lean toward the green .... or the pink??
Are you dimming your tungsten fixtures?
DS



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Mark Suszko
Re: What gel to use?
on Dec 29, 2013 at 8:13:00 pm

Using two layers of gel to color correct is really going to reduce the range of those lights.


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