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400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?

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Daniel Schultz
400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:08:47 pm

I'm planning on shooting some interview footage that will likely include window daylight inside. So I want some daylight-balanced light to supplement. I'm going to assume that the daylight will not be consistent for a nice, strong key light, so here are two options I was considering:

1) Joker bug 400 with softbox for key, bounce card for fill, small tungsten fresnel for backlight.

2) Kino flo 4x4 for key, bounce card for fill, small tungsten fresnel for backlight.

I rented a kino once for this and didn't really get much punch...the eyes looked kind of dead. But it might have been how I placed it. Generally, I like the punch of the joker, but wonder if it's overkill.

Any thoughts would be most welcome. This forum has been fantastic!

Dan S.

Dan S.


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john sharaf
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:18:46 pm

Daniel,

A 400w HMI is hardly "overkill" if you're trying to balance a window in the shot. I'd recommend both an 800 and a 400 Joker, which you can use either with softboxes or one hard and one soft. I am fortunate to have several 1800w Arris which are the biggest HMI you can plug into a household circuit, so there is no second guessing, you can always dim, scrim or diffuse the light down if necessary.

JS



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Daniel Schultz
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:27:34 pm

Hi John,

Thanks for your quick reply!

I recently did a shoot with a joker 800 diffused in a similar situation. Inside room with a good amount of diffuse window light. I had the joker coming in the same angle as the windows at the person, and it seemed kind of hot. That's why I was thinking the 400. BTW, maybe I didn't make it clear, the person will not have their back to the windows, window light (and joker light) will be coming in on their faces from a bit of an angle. So...with that in mind...you still think go with the 800 for key? (Like you said, can always dim/scrim/diffuse).

Thanks, Dan

Dan S.


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Daniel Schultz
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:29:58 pm

Also...I was hoping to go LIGHTER and save on the schlepping.

Dan S.


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john sharaf
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:41:09 pm

Daniel,

The Joker 800 kit box is exactly the same size as the 400 kit.

The most beautiful key light is made by double diffusing; use the
softbox on the 800 and hang a roll of Lee216 in front of it; this really wraps on the subjects face and all but eliminates nose shadow but still has a directionality. Double diffusing requires a bigger source, namely the 800 vs. the 400 if you are fighting a bright background. If however you are able to scout the actual shot and determine that the 400 will provide the necessary poop, then you're all set. Myself, I always prefer a slightly larger light that I can scrim down, because as you well know the alternative of making a small light brighter is not pretty!

JS



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Daniel Schultz
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:43:34 pm

Thanks, JS.
Your advice sounds right.
I'll just rent the cart to reduce schlepping.

I was thinking a small tungsten fresnel for head/back light would be fine...and okay if it's a little orange. You think? That way I only schlep one ballast.

Dan S.


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john sharaf
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:55:04 pm

If it were me, I'd take a 400 Joker as the backlight and use with a softbox. This way (God forbid) if the 800 fails or won't restrike, you'll have a backup. If you must use a tungsten light, get a 500-650w fresnel with a dicroic or blue glass and scrim set to control.

If cost is a big consideration, now that it turns out that you aren't actually shooting into the window, you could use that 4x4 Kino and the hanging Lee216 the same way and a 2' Fourbank as backlight. Notice that they are the same ratio of output as the 800 and 400!

JS



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Daniel Schultz
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 8:58:11 pm

Ok...just found out the rental house doesn't carry an 800 joker, only the 200, 400 or 1200 compact fresnel HMIs.

So, how about this:

Kino 4x4 for key, 200 par HMI for back/hair light. That way the hair light would be harder. Or is it better to match kino with kino, and use the 2x4 for the backlight?

Or Kino 4x4 for key, and 650 fresnel with blue gel for backlight?

Dan S.


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john sharaf
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 9:04:20 pm

Again, my preference is to use comparable gear in order to keep color temperature consistent, so the 4x4 and 2'x4 fills the bill costs less than the HMI option. Don't scrimp on c-stands!

JS



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Todd Terry
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 9:11:37 pm

Haven't read all the details, just skimmed the post (I'm in a mad dash today), but I agree with John... a 400 Joker sure wouldn't be overkill. I'd use an 800w Joker-Bug or a 1200 HMI bounced into a white 4x4 for the key.

You can still use your tungsten fixture as a back/hairlight. You might not even have to gel it. I often use a tungsten instrument for that in an otherwise daylight lighting setup and often times the warmer look to the backlight looks just fine, even desirable... so I forgo the blue gel on it (which really cuts the output).

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com



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Robin Probyn
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 20, 2011 at 2:34:09 am

iam shooting in Asia and find a blue-ish back light works well with very dark hair colour.. but for blond/lighter would usually go for a warmer back light.. (besides when a specific "look" is required)

As long as you have a large source soft light,close to the subject.. 3/4,s angle should be fine..

Sorry if Im telling you stuff you already know..


PS get the sound recordist to carry heavy gear :) they are always counter balanced by the weight of their wallets..



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Daniel Schultz
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 17, 2011 at 10:28:45 pm

Thanks, JS. You've always been wise and super helpful.

Dan S.


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Bob Cole
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 31, 2011 at 11:27:46 pm

[john sharaf] "use the
softbox on the 800 and hang a roll of Lee216 in front of it;"


Sounds interesting. How far in front of the softbox do you hang your Lee216? Do you use a grid on the softbox, or do you flag the key so it doesn't hit the background? I'm just thinking about the ambient light that would result from this setup, and how it would dilute the "drama" of using a Source 4 with a pattern on the background.

Bob C


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john sharaf
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 31, 2011 at 11:44:05 pm

Bob,

Fill the hanging curtain with the shape of the light coming out the softbox and I often use a 4x8' foamcore as a flag to keep the spill of the back wall, so the source four pattern keeps its contrast. Of course if the background is far enough away the natural fall off precludes the use of a seperate flag.

JS



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Bob Cole
Re: 400 joker bug or Kino flo 4x4?
on May 31, 2011 at 11:53:36 pm

Thanks John. I'll try it that way. That makes every bit of sense.

Bob C


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