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New HMI - soft or fresnel

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Morten Raarup
New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 8, 2010 at 9:33:25 am

Hi

I'm considering purchasing a more powerful light to my lightkit.
My current kit consists of:

1 Kinoflo Barfly 400
1 Kinoflo Barfly 200
2 Vista single
Dedolight DLH200D 200W HMI
Dedolight DLH400D 400W HMI


My thoughts go towards the new Dedolight 1200W HMI.
but I start thing that maybe I would get more out of Dedolight Panaura 7 a dedicated 1150W HMI softlight:

http://www.dedoweigertfilm.de/dedo/default.php?la=0&pg=02&id=DL_Panaura&sec...

It gives more output per watt and the light are easier to control and keep away from background than a bounce or diffused light. And using at 1200 HMI whit out diffusion or bounce are very rare.

But I'm not sure.

I mostly work for adagencys doing coperate film, minor commercials and webcampains. I'm shooting on a Sony PDF-F800. At most productions I work as a “on man crew” so it also has to be easy and fast to work whit.

I would appreciate your input.

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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Todd Terry
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 8, 2010 at 3:39:51 pm

Well, it just depends on what you need, your shooting/lighting style, and what subjects you are shooting.

As for hard or soft... if you are limited one just one insrument remember this: you can always make a hard instrument soft... but you can't make a soft instrument hard.

Personally, I couldn't live without at least one 1200 HMI fresnel. It is usually used with a 4x4 white bounce card for interiors. For exteriors, I usually use it with a bit of diffusion in a Hollywood frame. Right now I'm in the process of building a gigantic homemade speedring for it, so I can use it with a set of softbox rods (not the box, just the rods) so I can mount diffusion on it directly (without having to set up a frame and another stand).

One trick I do with it for shooting people (which works great) is to key light my subjects with the 4x4 bounce... which is hit by the 1200w that is high (on a junior stand) to the subjects rear/side. That way the intrument can hit the bounce card, and spill directly onto the subject's back/side a bit. You get great key lighting and some interesting back/side lighting all with just one instrument. I did this just a couple days ago with a politician in a congressional race and he looked like a million bucks.

Also, when going with big hard HMIs, I definitely prefer fresnels to PARs. I much prefer being able to turn a knob to focus rather than having to constantly swap out the often-screaming-hot lenses.

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Rick Wise
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 8, 2010 at 6:08:47 pm

Thanks for bringing out attention to the Panaura 7. Looks like a very interesting location soft light. If you go for it, be sure to get the grid because controlling spill with soft boxes can be a hassle.

I like Todd's 1200 fresnel lighting idea, combining key and backlight. You could probably also nurse a fill light with a piece of foamcore catching some of the bounced key as well. That way you have key, fill, and backlight, all from just one lighting unit. Note that properly placed, a soft key often needs little or no fill.

If you go with the Panaura you may find you have too much luminance in relation to your other lights. But I presume there's a way to scrim down the Panaura. Otherwise, invest in a roll of ND3 gel (1 stop.)

Myself, I would be very, very, very tempted to buy the Panaura, maybe because I like to try out new approaches. For your purposes it looks like it could be terrific.

I couldn't find anywhere to buy it or a price. Please post if you have that information.

Rick Wise
director of photography
San Francisco Bay Area
and part-time instructor lighting and camera
grad school, SF Academy of Art University/Film and Video
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/rwise
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Morten Raarup
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 8, 2010 at 7:57:33 pm

Hi

Thanks for yours input.

@Todd - I also like your HMI idea, and would like to se a picture of the setup.
My plan whit the softlight are to have 2 softboxes, a large and a small, to be able to control how hard or soft the light are. It's not very often HMI are used whit out any kind of diffusion. My hope is that is't faster to work whit it because you don't have seperate bounce cards or diffusion. And it has a output higher than a 2500 W HMI whit softbox.

@ Rick - Here are some more info:
http://dedoweigertfilm.de/assets/pdf/PanAura7_Low.pdf
The 1150 W HMI version uses 2 x 575 W ballast whit 2 lampes so it works from 300 W to 1150 W.
I will get back when I have some price info. The new HMI series from Dedolight are shipping in next month in Europe.

A bonus info: Dedo also makes HMI lamps to all the instruments that works whit 3200 K, whit same output as the 5600 K version.

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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Todd Terry
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 9, 2010 at 6:14:56 pm

[Morten Raarup] "@Todd - I also like your HMI idea, and would like to se a picture of the setup."

Well, here's a really simple little drawing I whipped together... maybe it will sorta explain what I mean. The photos aren't great expamples, but I think you'll get the idea.

Bascially what I often do is just place one 1200w fresnel HMI high and to the rear (and slightly side) of a subject. Pretty far back. Then I shoot it into a white 4x4 bounce card which becomes the subject's key, and a bit of spill from the HMI becomes a back/side light. It can give very pretty lighting that looks natural... quite non-lit.

In the top photograph below (for a shoot with a political candidate last week) we were in a huge building lobby that had some windows which gave a lot of ambient light, but nothing direct. I had a truckload of lights with me but we ended up just using the single 1200w as the only lighting instrument.



T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Rick Wise
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 9, 2010 at 8:06:59 pm

Really nicely done, Todd. The hot out-of-focus backgrounds help sell this look. I suspect there are times that you also scrim down the rake on the shadow side of the face. In all the location work I've done I've never even thought of this solution. Can't wait to try it!

Rick Wise
director of photography
San Francisco Bay Area
and part-time instructor lighting and camera
grad school, SF Academy of Art University/Film and Video
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/rwise
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Todd Terry
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 9, 2010 at 8:41:48 pm

Well Rick... I'd never heard of this either and stumbled upon the setup completely by accident one day. I figured DPs had been doing it forever, that it was just a technique I was ignorant of.

It's not always perfect or pretty, but when you are understaffed or undergeared or running out of time (and I'm usually all three) it's sometimes a good "make do" setup that lets you get away with fewer instruments and a really fast setup.

You're the pro... refine it for me!

T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Morten Raarup
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 9, 2010 at 9:20:38 pm

Todd - Thanks a lot for your drawing and pictures. I looks like a setup that could help me i many of my shoots. I think I will go for the fresnel version.

Morten

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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Morten Raarup
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 10, 2010 at 9:16:58 am

Todd, Dedolights beam are very sharp, do you think it's to sharp to work whit your setup?

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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Morten Raarup
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 11, 2010 at 7:15:17 pm

Todd and Rick - thanks for your input. It was very help full. I just ordered the HMI today and decided to go whit this one:

http://www.arri.de/lighting/europe_asia_australia_africa/daylight_lampheads...

as it seemed to be the most versatile option.

:-) Morten

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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john sharaf
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 11, 2010 at 7:21:18 pm

Morton,

Excellent choice of lights. I own two of them, one configured as PAR and the other as Open Face with special reflector. I use them in every possible configuration; hard, soft with large Chimera, bounced, through grid cloth and other diffusion, through windows, etc. etc. In Europe were you live and the power is 220 you can actually plug in a 2.5kw instrument into the wall, and If I were you I might have considered that but in the states with 120v power, this is the biggest light we can run on household circuits.

Congrats and good luck with your awesome new light!

JS



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Morten Raarup
Re: New HMI - soft or fresnel
on Aug 11, 2010 at 7:28:43 pm

Hi John

I glad you like working whit light.

In Denmark are the power in most houses an offices 220V and 10A - 2200W. So the 2500W would blow the fuse. Whit 1800 W I have a little left for fill, even if I only have access to one phase.

Morten Raarup
On Off Line
Copenhagen, Denmark

Sony PDW-F800, AVID Symphony Nitris, FCP 7


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