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Studio vs Theatrical fresnels

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Mike Jeffs
Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 24, 2009 at 2:37:05 am

Hello pros,

I have been task with purchasing new fixtures for a small size studio our university is building, I am definitly not a lighting expert i know a little but just enough to carry on a conversation with some one who does. on campus we have a theatricle lighting designer with extensive experinces in that realm but zero when it comes to vido and film.

the question he has is, What is the fundmental difference between Theatrical fixtures and Studio ones? any? we are primarly looking at 1k to 2k fixtures only we don't need anything bigger then that.

if any one has any information or could point us to good info that would be most helpfully.

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Dennis Size
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 24, 2009 at 3:40:43 am

Durablity.
Reliablity.
Quality of construction.
Better ventilation.
Better sound absorption (less transmision).
Better optics.

Just compare the theatrical versus television fixtures sold by companies such as ALTMAN, STRAND, and ARRI. The differences are obvious. Rent a few television fixtures and conduct your own study.

Bear in mind however (other than a lesser quality) most fixtures designed for theatre application do provide nice light output, and that's the ultimate goal .... and are better than some of the television fixtures on the market. For example a 1000w theatrical fresnel is still better than a Lowell 1000w fixture.

One question, a 2000w television/film fresnel is a "beefy" amount of illumination (unless you're putting chimera lightbanks on them). How high is the grid in the studio you're equipping?
DS

DS




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Mike Jeffs
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 25, 2009 at 3:14:59 am

Thank you for you response.

The studio grid will hang at about 16 feet. as for the 2k being beefy, yes the idea is to add chimeras to them.

I'm not sure if renting will work, We are in southeast Idaho, the closes facility to rent anything is in Salt Lake City Utah. But do you do have a point maybe I can get something arranged.

we recived some quotes back from dealers, and they gave us a couple of different options between Arri, Altman, and Desisti, The prices they quoted were all reasonable around the same price point. when it comes to those specific manufactures does one stand out above the rest?

I have heard that Arri is considerd High end, is that correct?

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Todd Terry
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 25, 2009 at 4:27:14 am

[Mike Jeffs] "I have heard that Arri is considerd High end, is that correct?"

Yes, definitely. And a lot of pros (probably some in here) swear by them. Personally, I've always found them to be just a bit overpriced for what you get.

In fresnels, I personally prefer LTM Pepper instruments to Arri (LTM Lighting). They are extremely robust instruments, and work very well. Whereas Arri (and a lot of other fresnels) are basically constructed out of a number of aluminum sheetmetal panels that are connected by fore and aft housings, the Peppers are made as more or less a single-piece cast housing. They are very sturdy (although slightly heavier than Arris), but they are also typically quite a bit less expensive.

Although I usually use smaller fresnels than the ones you need (I have Pepper 200s, 300s, and 650s), they do make a swapable 500/1K.

They don't make a 2K in a tungsten fresnel (they make lots of the bigger instruments, but only in fresnel and PAR daylight HMIs... 1K is the biggest tungsten), but for your smaller instruments it might be worth having your vendor give you some pricing at least for comparison.

I've never used Desisti tungsten fresnels... but with their other instruments I've had good experiences. I've rented their 1200w PAR HMIs on a number of occasions, and they worked well and were extremely well built (although huge and heavy, especially compared to the 1200w fresnel HMIs we have that are probably half the size and weight). I would imagine their tungsten fresnels are built equally as well as their HMIs.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Peter Rummel
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 25, 2009 at 6:13:59 pm

Rather than using a Chimera with a 2K, I would suggest some fluorescent fixtures. They use much less electricity and produce much less heat. The quality of light produced by a small Chimera and a KinoFlo Diva 400 is similar.

Many studios have inadequate cooling systems, and/or loud ones. With large tungsten insturments you're paying a lot to power them, and then paying more to cool down a hot studio. If your intention is to soften the lights with Chimeras, I'd say use fluorescents instead.

The advantage of the fresnel is that it's more versatile. You can use it with or without the soft box, depending on need.

KinoFlo is the best known manufacturer of fluorescent fixtures.



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Mike Jeffs
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 26, 2009 at 12:29:39 am

"I would suggest some fluorescent fixtures"


We are planing on getting 6 Kino flo 4-banks for lighting a green screen/cyc wall

but i figure that we can use them in more shoots then just those

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Alan Lloyd
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 25, 2009 at 7:17:39 pm

...the Peppers are made as more or less a single-piece cast housing. They are very sturdy (although slightly heavier than Arris), but they are also typically quite a bit less expensive.


Until someone drops one. An Arri can then be repaired with a Philips screwdriver, while a Pepper will need to be replaced.


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Todd Terry
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 25, 2009 at 7:44:11 pm

[Alan Lloyd] "Until someone drops one."

Truth to that. However, mine have been going strong for a dozen+ years. I was unfamiliar with the Peppers until I bought my first ones... I knew my Arri days were over then. I've seen Arris "gently" dropped that messed up the focus mechanisms because damage to the surface "skin" resulted in more damage inside which is not a problem with a fully-cast housing. Different strokes for different folks... they are both good instruments. And neither particularly cheap.

Hopefully in a studio/grid setting there wouldn't be much "dropping" going on like there tends to be on location. If so... HEADS UP!!!

Someone suggested flos, and that's probably not a bad idea too. KinoFlos were mentioned, and of course they are the kings. However they are usually thought of as location instruments or freestanding studio instruments. For a permanent installed grid situation, might take a look at the Videssence flos... which are more of a studio instrument than the Kinos.


T2

__________________________________
Todd Terry
Creative Director
Fantastic Plastic Entertainment, Inc.
fantasticplastic.com






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Mike Jeffs
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 26, 2009 at 12:35:02 am

Thank you so much for you input,

i'm not to worry about heating issues and dropping issues, luckly the university is putting Big Bucks behind this facility.

I have never heard of peppers so I will need to take a look at them, is there any info about them out on the web? that you might know about?


Again Thanks for any thoughts i need all the help i can get with this

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Dennis Size
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 26, 2009 at 4:14:11 am

Here's a link that will give you all the information you need for LTM's Peppers.

http://www.ltmlighting.com/en/projector/pepper_200-44.html

Make sure the KINO-FLO 4 bank units you purchase have dmx ballasts so you can control them from your lighting console. Depending on how big your greenscreen is you may need a few more to light your talent with fluorescents along with your greenscreen.

If the University has that much money you shouldn't be worried about using theatrical fixtures instead of telvision fixtures. Train your students on the right instrumentation for the job. Also consider purchasing pole-op television fresnels for your students to use. It's much safer, and more convenient and efficient.

DS




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Mike Jeffs
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 28, 2009 at 3:54:51 am

..."If the University has that much money you shouldn't be worried about using theatrical fixtures instead of telvision fixtures. Train your students on the right instrumentation for the job.



This is what I figured as well. While we have the money we also have the bureaucracy, Administation Most times only looks at Dollar amounts and says "why don't you go for this instead of that, look its cheaper" Since I'm not lighting expert I need all the infomation i can get to defend why we need to go with Studio fixtures.

Also consider purchasing pole-op television fresnels for your students to use. It's much safer, and more convenient and efficient.


This is also something i want to look into

Thanks for the info.

Mike Jeffs
Video Coordinator
BYU-Idaho


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Dennis Size
Re: Studio vs Theatrical fresnels
on Sep 26, 2009 at 3:58:52 am

If your competitive pricing has the various manufacturers all in the same cost range then you should buy the ARRI fixtures.

DS



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