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Color Temp Range

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Sebastian Ballek
Color Temp Range
on Jun 17, 2009 at 9:30:43 am

Hi there.
I had some problems a few weeks ago and it took me to a lot of fighting with the production and the Color Broadcast problems.

The scene was a 2min party sequence in 60fps with the HVX200 camera. I did planed to set the WB on 3200ºK but I belived in the LCD monitor (Stupid me, never again!) and set WB to 5600ºK, so there was a diference of 2700ºK with my 1900ºK base light. So, my first cuestion is:

Wich is a good range to play arround to not drop the colors out of the range? (Panasonic HVX200 on Cinelike_D and standart setup)
How much does the exposition affect the color temp?
Does the color temp decrase with the subexposition?

I suposed to work on f1.4 but did set f2.8, so all the actors where like 2 Stops under. Result: Skintones were all red like crabs. Hehe. (Poor colorist)

I will be very thankfull with some help on the colortemp range. I have no Color-Meter but I can get the Sekonic C-500 for my coming proyect.

Cheers!


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Rick Wise
Re: Color Temp Range
on Jun 17, 2009 at 6:38:04 pm

I'm confused by your confusion. You always have two choices: uses the presets correctly, or white balance for the scene. To use the presets, if you are shooting in daylight or with daylight-balanced lights, set the preset to daylight. If you are shooting inside with tungsten lights, set it to tungsten. Pretty straight forward.

Note my post on the "greenish tint" thread (http://forums.creativecow.net/readpost/47/856931) for a brief overview of the blue-red color axis and the magenta-green color axis.

Rick Wise
director of photography
and custom lighting design
Oakland, CA
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/rwise
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Sebastian Ballek
Re: Color Temp Range
on Jun 18, 2009 at 12:30:31 am

I read the color axis post you wrote.
Actualy, im not confused, I know I have tio set the camera WB setup to my correspondng balanced lights. Let me set an concrete example:
This monday I have to videoclip with a band with 2 HVX200 cameras.



1) HMI 4kW
2) HMI 2.5kW
3) Softlight
4) CST Desisti

I set both cameras to 5600ºK, al my lights are 5600ºK so its balanced.
So, for example I put a 100% CTO rosco gel on all my CST's, they will be on 3200ºK.
My CST's will be 2400ºK lower from the camera daylight setup, so they will be realy orange.
How does the HVX200 camera react o 2400K diference from the setup, Does not the color drop out of the broadcast safe colors?

How much ºK does de HVX200 tolerate up and down. (Wat is the color temperature range of the camera)

These are a lot of things im trying to learn, so if there are concepts I must fix, plase tell me.
Hope its more clear now what I am tring to talk about.
Cheers!


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Rick Wise
Re: Color Temp Range
on Jun 18, 2009 at 9:53:27 pm

Thanks for the clarifying diagram. The HVX2000 will tolerate any color shift. As for broadcast safe colors, if you orange is too intense, your NLE should have a filter to control that. I doubt you are close to that problem.

So it looks like you will have very warm edges from the CSTs. I see no problem at all. These units are tungsten, and adding a layer of CTO will just make for a very warm splash. The only problem I can see is, are these units strong enough?

Also, is your softlight daylight or tungsten? If it's tungsten, you might consider balancing to tungsten, and let the 3 HMIs provide a very blue back and edge rim, the CSTs a very warm side/front edge, and the softlight a "normal" light. In such a case, you might use 2 HMI back lights from rear left and rear right, take 2 stronger tungsten units with CTO mid back left and right, and possibly one or 2 front fills with "normal" tungsten soft light(s).

Many different ways to go.

Rick Wise
director of photography
and custom lighting design
Oakland, CA
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/rwise
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Sebastian Ballek
Re: Color Temp Range
on Jun 19, 2009 at 12:52:08 am

Thank you for your clarifing awnser.
So I will rarely have technical color problems with the HVX200, but I still do have problems conceptualy if I warm "splash" the skins with CTO's to much. They will look red like crabs.

For example 2700ºk diference (Skin lit with 2900ºk ChinaBall with a 5600ºk camera wb setup.) My skins will look red like crabs.

Do you have a recomendation for lighten skins, in wich range should I play. Like 2000ºk range would be ok? (1000ºk up and 1000ºk down.)

---------

Now, talking about the light design, specificly about the CTS's, you really got me to think if they are strong enough. Maybe I should use Arri HMI 575, I think they will do the job. (What do you think?)
1 HMI 575 per musician will be ok? (I have 4 to use)

And I am thinking about the softlight, maybe its not necesary to fill the shadows and the present light will bounce by itself to fill the shadows.

My intention is to film 9 songs (each two times). These divided in 3 blocks. (Daylight setting)
[HMI's and CST are 5600º calibrated, Soft is 3200º)



Maybe in my third block set my cameras to 3200ºk WB and use less gels.

Thanks again for all your time and help for this desperate film student!!
Cheers!



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Rick Wise
Re: Color Temp Range
on Jun 19, 2009 at 9:23:29 pm

The skin will like "red crabs" ONLY if most of the face is lit with such a warm light. Rather than CTO, you might go with a real red. Just make sure the units hitting skin are raking from the back and not too frontal. Also, red gel chews up lots and lots of light. You are best off using the largest lighting unit you can. You can always scrim down a hot light, but you can never boost up a weak one.

Go for the gusto and enjoy the ride! I think it's time to stop worrying and go out and do it!

Good shooting!

Rick Wise
director of photography
and part-time instructor lighting and camera
grad school, SF Academy of Art Univeristy/Motion Picture and Film
Oakland, CA
http://www.RickWiseDP.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/rwise
email: Rick@RickWiseDP.com


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Sebastian Ballek
Re: Color Temp Range
on Jun 20, 2009 at 4:12:28 pm

Thanks a lot for your advices and time!
As soon some edited footage is on the web I will post the URL.

"Go for the gusto and enjoy the ride! I think it's time to stop worrying and go out and do it!"


Best advice!
Here we go!
Thx again!

Sebastian Ballek
Film Student FilmSchoolChile
seballek@gmail.com


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