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Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode

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Travis Cannan
Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 10, 2017 at 9:44:02 pm

First off I just wanted to say that I've been using this forum to troubleshoot my NLE related woe's for the better part of ten years. Googling a few keywords about my problem almost always brought me to this site which often resulted in finding a quick solution to my problem. Unfortunately this time around I am stumped and am hoping that this post will uncover some insight or ideally a solution to my issue.


After browsing a few different forums about a problem I'm having bringing an AAF from MC to Resolve (I 'm aware how many posts there are about this issue, stick with me) I believe my problem is that we originally directly imported our pro res files into avid which rewraps them into a mxf wrapper? and in the process creates its own timecode that is different from the one embedded on the pro res files. I know for a fact that somewhere along the line my timecode got screwy in avid but I'm just trying to figure out if the information I read was true and more importantly if there is any way for me to salvage/get back the original timecode (within Avid) so that I can get an AAF to reconnect to the original camera files in resolve?

Probably relevant information:
-Shot on RED at 5k Raw and 2k pro res proxies
-Proxies are what was imported into MC ( yes the proxies also have the timecode embedded in them)
-Want to reconnect to the 5k files in Resolve
-5k files have proper timecode, Pro Res files have proper timecode, Whatever "wrapper" or video file i'm actually cutting within Avid has incorrect timecode


I'm including a screenshot of one of the posts i found that makes me think this is my issue.





Thanks to anybody who might be able to help. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!


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Pat Horridge
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 9:10:16 am

It is possible but a lot of work.
You need to find a post house to sort it.

Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online http://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk



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Travis Cannan
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 4:55:28 pm

This is a personal project that doesn't have any real money behind it so a post house is out of the question. However, if you're telling me it's possible i'm not ready to give up on fixing this. If it's just a matter of being extremely tedious and time consuming I'm willing to tackle that.

I found some information in the MC user guide that seems relevant but i'm not entirely sure how I would utilize it to solve my problem.









Am I at least on the right track?


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 5:13:36 pm

you might want to try linking to the prores files. That will retain the timecode. You could then transcode them, or simply cut with them as is. If the project isn't too large, you might be able to do a bunch of replace edits.

If there are too many edits, then you might not be dead yet.

Once they are in the system, you may be able to combine the two bins information together.
Not my typical workflow, so I am no expert at the list combining aspect....perhaps Michael Phillips can chime in, as I know he has documented the idea of list combining before.

Glenn


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Travis Cannan
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 5:40:40 pm

Hey Glenn, thanks for the response! If I understand you correctly you're saying to try unlinking from the files I imported and then AMA linking back to the original Pro Res files? If I'm hearing you right wouldn't I still have a timecode/conform issue since the timecode information from the clips I've been editing is different from the Pro res files and therefor won't properly reconnect? Unless Avid can just use the reel names and in and out points to rebuild my sequences? Sorry If i'm completely misinterpreting what you're recommending.


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Pat Horridge
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 6:36:59 pm

The best way is to AMA link the footage afresh (AMA is what you should have done anyway.
Check the AMA clips timecodes match the source clips.
Eye match each clip and replace edit rebuilding the timeline clip by clip.
A post house would have a runner or an edit assistant do it.

Its the price you end up paying for not taking care of timecode and doing mini conforms as the job progressed.

Pat Horridge
Broadcast & Post Consultant, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
Free online Tutorials at VET digital media academy online http://vimeo.com/channels/752951
pat@vet.co.uk



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Travis Cannan
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 8:04:11 pm

Thanks for the response Pat. As annoying as that would be I could handle that solution but I feel that I have stumbled upon a slightly more streamlined fix but I'm a little nervous I'm overlooking something. Basically I right clicked on one of my master clips in Avid and then clicked "modify"
From there I Manually typed in the start timecode from the corresponding r3d source clip. I then exported out a new AAF and opened that in resolve in a new project that I had loaded all of my source files into. Upon importing the AAF I got the usually error dialogue box telling me about all the timecode extents however the clip I had modified in Avid relinked correctly in my resolve sequence. It was actually used multiple times in the sequence and every instance was the correct part of the clip.

Assuming this works for every other clip is there any reason I'm not thinking of that would keep this from being a viable option? I'm not even sure if this would technically be faster than what you recommended but to me it seems like it would be easier to just sort of go on autopilot and re type all the timecodes rather than basically rebuild the edit.

Thanks again!


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 8:08:42 pm

(What Pat said ☺

There is no quick solution, but re-editing the timeline with proper source is first option.

The other thought was that there might be a scenario where you link to the prores files and create a bin with those clips all with proper timecode. Again, i have not done a lot (like maybe once) of bin merging.

My thought is could you create an ale for both the good and the bad bins, and then get Avid to merge those ALEs
into one that puts the proper timecode from the linked/transcoded column into an aux column.

Then in Avid you could try to relink the sequence based on timecodes from the Aux column and file name?

Again, i don't totally understand the ways that merging bins works with ALEs but someone here probably can speak up as to whether it is possible or not.

Glenn

Glenn


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Travis Cannan
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 11, 2017 at 8:32:33 pm

Glenn,

I think I am following you. I've never tried or would know where to begin dealing with "merging bins" but the idea that I could link to the pro res files and then copy the timecode information from it's respective column and paste/duplicate it into the column of the wrong timecode or at least an auxiliary TC column makes perfect sense to me. I just don't know how to execute that if it's even possible. Even if I was only able to insert the proper timecode into an auxiliary timecode column is there a way to tell resolve to link based on an auxiliary timecode? Or I suppose at that point I could unlink from the imported files and then try to relink to the proper pro res files within Avid since the timecodes would then match up?

Like I said in my last post i did find a solution that is essentially a far more arduous, clip by clip method of changing the timecodes but If anyone has any insight into what Glenn is referring to I'm all ears.

Thanks!


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 12, 2017 at 5:51:12 pm

If doing it manually..try having a bin with linked timeecodes open and sorted by name beside your original bin sorted by name. You could then probably copy and paste the timecode numbers...maybe even into the alt tc column, or at the very least by using the modify command. (Copy, modify, paste) Should be quicker than typing each timecode manually.

Glenn


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Jeff Dirdack
Re: Import of Pro Res footage loses embedded Timecode
on Feb 15, 2017 at 9:41:15 pm

Hey all, long time lurker, first time poster...

Travis - What version of MC are you using? I have been using MC since ~6.5 and never ran into this problem. I am currently working in a project using v 8.7.0 using 2K prores with source TC and my imported media has maintained that source TC.

I noticed in the screenshot you referenced the version in question was MC v 2.5.3 which was quite a while ago and very well could have been a problem back then.

I've never had to merge bins, so if you take this approach I'd be very curious to hear how that process works out for you.

Here's a thought that should work, and I just tested it on my machine. Try a batch re-import. I knew the stipulation with batch re-import is the file needs to be the exact same length as the clip that is being replaced in media composer, but I was curious to see if it needed the same TC as well (test results it doesnt').

I took one file "A006C007_160919_R0J1" from my project, put it in a timeline and exported it to prores with the same name. Since it was exported from a timeline that clip's source timecode now starts at 0. I jumped back into MC, found the file, and just to make sure it really worked, I deleted the master clip's media from the 1 folder. I then right clicked, selected batch re-import, and set the file destination to where I exported my new prores A006C007_160919_R0J1 file (the one with TC starting at 0). selected that, and MC re-imported it, with no problems.

Sorry if this is long winded, but after that test I think you can 1. back up your media folder and project so you don't lose anything and then 2. try and batch re-import using your prores files, and I think it should link up exactly the way you want it to. And then there's no over cutting!

Let us know how it goes!


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