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editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97

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Aren Hansen
editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 6:50:29 pm

Hi,

I'm working on a movie that couldn't afford an assistant somehow. I've never had to do this before and am real grumpy about it.

We have a locked theatrical 23.98 version done and I now need to deliver a 29.97 broadcast version for a network.

So, I've been told my my post super that I need to cut up my 23.98 version inside a 23.98 timeline and deliver a 23.98 EDL that once layed back to tape at 29.97df will have the perfect timings that the network has requested (like having act breaks end at ;00 etc.)

I thought I’d be able to just open the 23.98 sequence and see my 29.97df timings in the timecode window, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I can't always hit my timings...

Any ideas? Is my post super out to lunch? Shouldn't I just be converting the master to 29.97, then editing that for broadcast?

Thanks a lot. AVID 8.5



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Shane Ross
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 7:01:38 pm

No...your post super is right. Cut in a 23.98 sequence, but look at the 29.97 timecode. In the PROGRAM MONITOR...above that...is a timecode readout. Click on that and choose: SEQUENCE>TIMECODE>30DF>MAS. NOw you will be cutting in 23.98, but seeing 29.97 timecode, and cutting for that timing.

Trust your post super.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Aren Hansen
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 7:22:16 pm

Okay thanks

And how do I end my acts on a :00 or a :02 frame, if my timecode does not stop on those frames. I'm looking at the 30DF readout and sometimes it will stop there, other times it won't. Sometimes it counts up to 29, then goes to a :01 or a :03.

Thanks.



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Aren Hansen
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 7:22:45 pm

Here is the requirement to which I'm referring:

6) Pads of Black - End of Segment
All program segments must END at '00' or '02' frames. (network) calculates segment times in exact seconds. Accordingly, if a segment’s active video ends at a point other than the `00’ or `02’ frame, a "pad of black" must be added after the end of active video in order for the segment to end at '00' or '02' frame location. This "Pad of black" is considered part of the program segment time.



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Shane Ross
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 7:28:26 pm

Yes. This is something I know VERY well. Used to have to do this for Discovery all the time, but when we switched to shooting and editing 23.98, they did away with that requirement, even if we delivered 29.97. Pads of black...ugh, hated that. Make one change in Act 1 and you had to fix every single act break.

As I said, set the timecode reader above the Program monitor to 29.97, and you'll be able to do this. I still zero out my acts as a habit.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Aren Hansen
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 7:30:35 pm

I'm looking at the 30DF reader now and unfortunately sometimes the reader just skips over the frames I need to hit. Sometimes my only option is ;29 or ;01 or even ;03.



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Shane Ross
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 7:52:33 pm

Because those frames don't exist yet...and won't until you output to tape. You are working 23.98...so you won't have all the numbers in a 30DF output. Those only exist when you output...and frames are blended in a 3;2 pulldown. I thought you needed to zero out? You don't need those other numbers when zeroing.

This is also why Discovery did away with this.

Who are you delivering to?

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Aren Hansen
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 8:44:19 pm

I'll email you name of the network privately if that's okay.

I believe they are saying it's okay to also end on ;02 because that's sometimes the first frame of the second with drop frame.

For now, in about four instances I'm ending the act on ;01. I'll let them deal with it I guess. Hire an assistant next time?

Thanks for you help Shane.



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Shane Ross
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 8:49:28 pm

Don't worry about the name, I was just curious. That was always a very specific Discovery spec.

And yes, Drop frame timecode drops the 00 and 01 on the head of every minute, except for the 10th minute. So occasionally you'll "zero out" at :02.

And no, this isn't the realm of assistants to lock a show, it's the editors job. Just listen and heed the advice of the post super, that's all.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Aren Hansen
Re: editing in 23.98, delivering in 29.97
on Mar 15, 2016 at 8:52:10 pm

Oh the picture is locked. I'm just trying to get the black pads to match the timecode. Guess I've been a bit lucky with getting help with outputs. It's pretty standard on the jobs I do to have this sort of thing taken care of for you.



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