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Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?

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Jimmy See
Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?
on Feb 24, 2016 at 11:36:12 am

So I have a project that shot multicam and they shot in such a manner where one camera will remain on while the other buttons on and off several times.

I work around this using by simply including all clips in the group that cover the same action during the longest clip in the set and then group these. That creates a group clip where one 'tile' or quadrant of the quad split is always occupied by the camera that remained on, and then each new clip generated by the second camera during this time is treated by avid as simply another angle or camera and occupies it's own tile in the split after the previous clip shot by that camera has finished. It's not ideal, but it works well enough. The problem is though that where in the source monitor each 'angle' is displayed seems to be basically random, and set by Avid not me.

It's possible to change how the angles are placed in the quad or nine split by cmd + clicking on a tile which brings up a list of angles and you can select which one you want it to occupy. That's fine by me, except I thought I'd only have to do this once, after the clip is made and it would remember that layout. Sadly that is not the case, it resets to whatever it initially came up with when I set the grouping every time it's loaded in to the source monitor.

I'm assisting on this project so I won't be there when the edit is going on and can't tell the editor that's happening and besides it would waste their time to constantly have to set up the split each time they use a group. Is there a way to make it so the selections I make regarding placement of the angles in the source split is remembered?


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Shane Ross
Re: Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?
on Feb 24, 2016 at 5:46:26 pm

I want this feature too...but alas, can't do it. The footage is in a certain order....once a camera turns off, that quad then shifts everything up in order, changing the angles of all those clips. I'd prefer that it leave that space BLACK...

Hmmm...that has me wondering now. Fill the sync map where the cameras stop, with black. Not filler, Avid thinks that's nothing when it comes to grouping. But black video. Shoot something black for a while, and every hole you get, put the black there. I might have to ask our AE if this is possible.

Shane

Shane
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Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Jimmy See
Re: Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?
on May 25, 2016 at 3:33:34 am

You know, I don't have the means to test it at the moment as that particular project is operating differently now anyway (stopped using multiple button on and button offs as part of a single group and simply made groups as long as each simultaneously filmed section using subclips and then laid them out in an assembly so it's seamless for the editor). However I might still use the technique we were discussing earlier in future which would present the dilemma. I wonder now then whether I might have figured out a why to do what you're describing in practice.

Since it's possible to make groups consisting of subclips, maybe a simple graphic like an all black title, or text saying 'buttoned off' can be added from the end of a camera B clip until the beginning of the next where both of those camera B clips coincide with one camera A clip and then set in and out points at the start of the first camera b clip until the end of the second (thus including the graphic between them) and then create a subclip of that and then create a group consisting of camera A's clip and the new subclip. That would theoretically keep all the camera B footage in one tile for the duration of the group. I know a variation of that technique is possible from a FCP7 COW post where an editor did this, but in their case the placed the black between the clips in a sequence, then exported the sequence, then re-imported that video files in to the project and made multiclips with it and corresponding A cam footage. That may have worked for him, but that's totally impractical when there's a lot of footage and not a lot of time or necessarily storage, or where it's important to maintain the footage's original codec, so hopefully it can be done without 'baking in' the black gaps.

The potential snag I see here is that while I know you can make groups from subclips, those subclips I've tested with were in and out ranges of source clips, not sections of timeline, that may prevent the grouping from being possible, hope not.


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Jimmy See
Re: Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?
on May 25, 2016 at 4:27:21 am

Aww turns out you can't. The in to out range of the sequence with the cameras synchronised on different video tracks is considered to be a subsequence and Avid apparently will only group clips or subclips but not subsequences. Frankly I don't see why, as it seems perfectly reasonably to want to do that to me but there you go. I guess that would also put the kibosh on the filming black idea too because if I understand what you were suggesting correctly you're suggesting separately filming and importing footage of blackness after the initial footage that was captured of multicam filmed event placing that between gaps in shooting from one camera during the continued duration of filming of another in the same manner as I hoped to do with the title graphic. Since that footage of black isn't part of the same master clip that is Camera B's first, no Camera B's 2nd clip there doesn't seem to be anyway to get Avid to group using the footage of black. It would merely consider it another camera and occupy a tile with it, whilst still placing the B cam footage in random tiles of the split in the disorderly manner it already does.


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Steve Plummer
Re: Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?
on May 26, 2016 at 4:46:35 pm

Your're almost there... I think this is what you want to do.

Make titles that say camA (drop), camB (drop), etc. Then create mixdowns and use those "clips" as place holders for the cameras that drop out. Every time a camera drops out, the position in the quad/nine split is unchanged. Not only that, it is pretty clear to the editor what is going on.

Hope that helps and thanks Nate (AE) for the idea.


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Jimmy See
Re: Can you permanently set the ordering of tiles in a quad/nine split group clip's source monitor?
on May 28, 2016 at 3:04:11 am

Sadly, though I'm sure that would work, it is basically the same as the fcp7 solution of exporting a sequence with the camera b clips and titles filling the gaps between them and then reimporting that and using it in a multiclip group.

Granted there are a few less steps, but creating a video mixdown of a sequence with titles in the gaps between shots and then grouping using the mixdown as an angle will still create new media which means you have to wait for the time it takes for that to happen, have to have the storage space for every single b cam clip from every shoot to take up double the avid media space and it also causes problems if there is any grading or motion FX work to be done with the footage outside of avid since it'd mess up the conform if you have to use proxies.

If it's just a single or small number of shoots and the whole post process takes place in Avid and you've got plenty of space and time available this'd work though.

I still don't see why being able to group sequences would be disallowed, if subclips can be grouped it certainly seems possible in principal that specific arrangements of media can be grouped together as well as entire source clips. Oh well, I think ultimately though it has it's own drawbacks, it's probably best to just break the long continuous a cam clip up into multiple subclips of sections that coincide with b cam clips and make multiple groups. Seems to have the least confusion created.


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