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Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed

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Zoe Westley
Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 9:25:35 am

Hi everyone

I'm editing a series of commercials and just wanted some advice about the red epic workflow.

everything has been shot at 4k, i've been told its all at 24fps.
the final delivery is QT's 1920x1080 for internet use.
We would want to grade everything to B&W in the avid.
All clips have sound
I am using an iMac, OS X.10.10.5
Avid MC 8.3.1
There doesn't appear to be a huge amount of rushes.
I don't have access to a davinci resolve for this project
I want to keep this project as simple as possible.


my questions are
1) what is the best way of getting the red footage in to the avid, then bak out for final deliveries? I was going to export PRO RES QT's in REDCINE X PRO, then link to media via AMA, do everything in the avid then export as same as source. But the iMac won't play apple pro res
2)Is there a way to double check that al rushes have been shot at 24fps. Normally the camera department would have all that info but there are a few discrepancies so I would like to double check before transcoding.
3)is there a B&W lut for the red epic, as the client is wanting all the footage to be gradedB&W, and a lut would be a great starting point.
4)I want to make sure that I am working with the best picture and sound resolution if i need transcode.

Thanks for your advice


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 10:13:24 am

sorry, just to add

would it be better to export as MXF 175 files with audio? then do everything in avid then export as same as source?

thanks everyone


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 12:19:13 pm

Do you want the freedom to reframe while accessing the higher than HD deliverable since you are shooting 4K?

What kind of grading process is this going to go through? Grading is more than the applying of a LUT as you have to balance shots between each other, etc. The easiest B&W method is to remove all saturation. This can be done with a LUT or using ASC CDL as I describe in my blog: http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=43

In this scenario, I would AMA link to the R3D files directly and you will be able to tell what the frame rate is for each clip in the bin with one or two of the column headings displayed (not in front of a system right now). The fps is displayed along with format, etc.

With RED, you can certainly apply a LUT in addition to using the RAW color parameters and changing the RMD to reflect the image you want to work with. Then when linking in Media Composer, apply the RMD on all the source clips. From there you can transcode when needed. Since you are in 8.3.x you should be able to transcode to DNxHR maintaining the higher 4K image to be able to reframe as needed in your 1080 project using FrameFlex.

Once complete, you can transcode final sequence to DNxHD 175x and deliver same as source to an encoder that will make your final streaming deliverables.

In this scenario, audio is going along for the ride on input - output will be whatever tracks your create for the soundtrack and what the deliverabale requires.



Michael


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 1:09:03 pm

Hi Michael

thanks for your advice. I have just linked via AMA as suggested but the footage stutters a lot, i don't think the equipment I have been given for this project can handle this workflow. The frame rate however appears to all be 25fps, which i didn't not expect.

4GHz
16GB memory 1600 MHz DDR3

I am fully aware of the grading process, however on this project they don't have budget for a grading suite, much to my dismay, the DoP/Director is a very experienced and said he had shot it in such a way that it would require a small amount of 'tweaking' in the avid - fingers crossed. So I was hoping to start with aB&W LUT in avid and then take it from there. Your article is very interesting - thanks

I don't really want to grade the rushes in REDCINE X PRO prior to editing in avid, just incase they want to see colour options in the avid etc. From experience Directors can be very set on an idea and then can change their mind rapidly, so i want maximum flexibility in the avid.

Do you suggest that I transcode everything in REDCINE X PRO to MXF 175, then edit in the avid, then apply Luts and 'grade' as best I can in the avid, then export as same as source etc. Or would you suggest another route?

The 25fps has thrown me a bit. I suppose i just create a 1080/25p project?

Thanks
Zoe


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 1:41:51 pm

Also if i was going to export as MXF files, what debater settings would you suggest for quality and speed? Full quality looks like it will take 4-6hrs per clip - ouch

Thanks


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 2:02:52 pm

For a 1080 delivery coming from RED 4K, you will be fine with a "1/2 debayer good" quality setting. You may want to create DNxHD is Redcine X directly as it is a faster decode of R3D as it uses GPU whereas MC does not.

You may decide to work with a proxy DNxHD to start. then relink and transcode the seqeunce only, or transcode directly to a finishing quality data rate like 175x (or 180x in your case at 25fps). All that depends on amount of footage, turnaround time, etc.

Here is a LUT I made in Resolve as .cube that you can import into MC and use via Source Settings. All it does is changes Saturation to 0.


Here is a download link to the LUT:

9385_bnw.cube.zip


Michael


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 29, 2015 at 7:12:55 pm

thanks so much Michael


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Nov 19, 2015 at 11:33:57 pm

thanks Michael, its all working out really well.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 1:42:11 pm

R3D is a tough codec to play within Avid and AMA is only used to access and then let you choose selected and transcode to a DNx codec for ease in editorial. Make sure you select debayer settings for transcode/render in Media Creation settings.


You can do the ASC CDL trick I describe which is easily reversible and behave like a LUT. Let me see what I got for LUTs to use in MC - it may have one for B&W, but you can make a .cube in Resolve that has saturation set to 0 or create a top video track in MC where you have it set to 0. They all behave the same way and depends on where you want to insert it in the pipeline.


Michael


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid MC 8.3 Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Oct 27, 2015 at 1:52:21 pm

ah okay thanks Michael, so would you suggest

I transcode everything in REDCINE X PRO to MXF 175, then edit in the avid. If so what Debayer settings would you suggest? Full isn't viable because of time. however I could edit the sequence, once locked, send it back to REDCINE X PRO as an EDL, then conform the clips, then export as FULL, then back in to avid to do final grades. Or does that seem very long winded?

If you have a LUT that would be amazing, thanks so much. Your blog is great, i'll look in to that as an option as well.

thanks Michael as always you are amazing


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