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Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed

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Zoe Westley
Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 26, 2015 at 10:53:32 am

Hi everyone

I've been asked to edit a music video that was shot entirely on the red epic, it was a 3 day shoot so not a huge amount of footage. Ideally i would like to work online to avoid conforming at the end, as speed is off the essence with this project. So hopefully no transcoding. Whats the best and simplest workflow for this.
I'll be using an Avid Media Composer v6 or 7.

Thanks


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Eric Santiago
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 26, 2015 at 12:35:53 pm

Im not sure but without knowing how much R3D footage you have AMA might bog you down.
Even if you were using 8.3.1 I would still suggest to Transcode.
The fastest is to Transcode and AAF from REDCINE so that you can go up and down the chain to 4K.
Or just transcode in Avid to DNxHD.


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Shane Ross
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 26, 2015 at 5:56:26 pm

Well...let's start with the deliverable. What does it need to be? 4K, or 1080p? File or tape? Knowing that we can work backwards. If 1080p, then AMA link and transcode the RED to 1080p DNx175 or 220x (depending on frame rate). If 4K...then you'll need to finish outside of Avid...neither of those versions does 4K, only from 8.3 up does that come into play.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 27, 2015 at 1:33:23 pm

Thanks Shane and Eric for getting back so quickly.

We've decided to keep the project 1080p, as the final output will mainly be for internet use. So a file output. I'm not sure about the amount of footage but I've been told 'its not much - 2 day shoot'.

Do you think AMA link and transcode would work best or would i be better of going through Davinci Resolve? Ideally we would like to do any basic grading inside of Avid. Failing that i was thinking of exporting and using Adobe Suit.

If i did go via AMA link and transcode to 175 - would that be the best resolution i could work at?

Many thanks


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 27, 2015 at 3:13:03 pm

If finishing at 1080 and color correcting in MC, then you can transcode to a DNxHR resolution (if in 8.3/8.4) at the clip's original source resolution and have the additional resolution for any reframing needed. If not, then transcode to 1080 and this can be done in either Resolve or Media Composer. If transcoding to a final mastering quality, then you want to use a higher quality debayer which will take more time, but will end up with a better image.

The bigger question is for color space - when transcoding from R3D you need to bake in whatever color space and gamma set from the R3D files into your Avid project color space. On features, that is done as Redcolor (3 or 4) and FilmLog which puts as much of the dynamic range of the source clip into your output format. The image will be very much washed out but this gives the colorist as much info as available. But you may choose to bake in whatever settings you have from camera, or adjusted via the RMD file. Keep in mind that Media Composer still does not display all the parameters available in source settings (arrrghh), but will apply them if in the RMD. So I usually do all that work in Redcine X Pro, save rMD file, then apply that in Media Composer when transcoding.


Michael


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 27, 2015 at 4:35:32 pm

Hi Michael

thanks for the reply. I believe the avid i will be using is MC7, would it be possible to AMA link the Red files okay in this version? if so what resolution would you recommend?

you mentions "But you may choose to bake in whatever settings you have from camera, or adjusted via the RMD file" we may choose this option - if we did, how is this actually done? sorry i've only ever worked offline before with a DIT transcoding everything, i've never been a one man band before

Thanks


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 27, 2015 at 9:07:25 pm

I would transcode to DxHD 175x (assuming 23.976) from at least a half-good debayer assuming the RED was shot 4K or higher for dailies. Or you could do a 1/4 debayer to DnxHD 36 for an offline edit, relink the sequence to the original R3D files and then do a transcode at full debayer for just the sequence (+ handles).

If you open your clips in RED's free Redcine X Pro, you have all the parameters available for image adjustment. In "preferences" you can set it to "always save RMD" whenever you make an adjustment. RMD is the sidecar XML file that carries all the metadata for the parameters. You could decide to just make Avid MXF DNxHD media right there and I prefer doing it there than in Resolve (for R3D only).

Or.. AMA link to the RED files, select all the clip, go to source settings, and on source setting tab, select RMD from the menu. It will be applied when transcoding within Media Composer.


Michael


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Zoe Westley
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 29, 2015 at 8:17:16 am

Fantastic thanks Michael.

I was also thinking, if we were going to grade elsewhere then another option could be to Transcode in RedCine X Pro to apple Pro Res. Then AMA link the files. If we do decide to output at 4K then I could export an XML, conform back in RedCine X Pro, then output the desired format - ready to be graded in another software. Would that work? sounds nice and simple. I've been informed that everything was shot at 24fps.

many thanks


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 29, 2015 at 11:59:03 am

In theory yes, but if you're going to go back to the R3D files and export what you want for the grade, there is no need for the ProRes proxy. Just make native DNxHD rather than ProRes, and the workflow remains the way you outlined.

Michael


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Eric Santiago
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 30, 2015 at 5:21:01 pm

This just in....

https://library.creativecow.net/freeman_scott/linkingmetadatatoessence/1


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Michael Phillips
Re: Red Epic - Avid Online Workflow Advice Needed
on Jun 30, 2015 at 5:33:58 pm

That workflow is something I use for last ditch effort when nothing else works. For many projects now, when exporting out of Resolve, on the edit page, highlight sequence and export AAD (not new AAF!!!). This puts all the new media links back into the original sequence which still has all the layers and FX on it. Move the rendered MXF media to an Avid MediaFiles folder and import AAF. It relink to media automatically. The only caveat in this scenario is to roundtrip a V only sequence, not audio.


Michael


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