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Eric Santiago
DNxIO
on Jun 23, 2015 at 1:02:07 pm

Anyone here biting on this one?
With our current set-up issues with the UltraStudio 4K, cant help look around.
Now of course this is a BMD/Avid joint project so maybe my issues will still persist.


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 23, 2015 at 2:57:54 pm

I too am interested in this.

Wish someone trustworthy (few are these days) would post a review. One interesting difference besides codecs between the two is the BMD version reportedly has two Thunderbolt 2 ports and the Avid one has only one. Somebody please prove me wrong!

Y'all take care,
Robert

Robert A. Ober
IT Consultant, Vidcaster, & Freelancer
http://www.infohou.com
Houston, TX


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 23, 2015 at 3:11:00 pm

Other than a press release of Fotokem committing to them, I do not believe anyone in the public has seen it in use yet as it is not yet available. My guess is Q3 - when in Q3 is unknown but I would think before IBC or IBC at the latest.

I don't know about the difference in Thunderbolt between the two. The FAQ only seems to reference a single Thunderbolt 2 connection:

Q: How does Avid Artist | DNxIO connect to a host computer?
A: DNxIO will connect to a host computer via a Thunderbolt 2 connection or a PCIe connection to a HIB card in the host.

http://avid.force.com/pkb/articles/en_US/FAQ/DNxIO-FAQ


BMD Tech sheet shows 2 connectins:
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/ultrastudiothunderbolt/techspecs/

But I would have to think, that there is not a remanufacturing of the I/O box in this case, so I am going to "assume" (for now) that DNxIO has the same.



Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 23, 2015 at 3:41:16 pm

[Michael Phillips] "But I would have to think, that there is not a remanufacturing of the I/O box in this case, so I am going to "assume" (for now) that DNxIO has the same. "

Yep, that is my hope.

Any chance you can call somebody and get one for review? I would very much like to see you put it through it's paces.

Thanks,
Robert


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 23, 2015 at 3:57:06 pm

I don't know if I would be the best person to review this as it doesn't really fit my workflow that much. This is more a machine room class type product with lots of signals. My only signal need is output for monitoring I am not capturing any signal based anything, much less at 4K. My world is file based - all resolutions. The on-board monitor is a confidence monitor (for a machine room) to know that a signal is passing through. It has been started that none of the frame rate conversions are handled in hardware so that will continue to be a function of Avid's mix & match. For me, the Ultrastudio 4K (not the extreme) is a much better fit at a much better price.

According to the FAQ, a lot of functionality is still yet to come, but that anything specifically added would be part of Avid's Open IO which means other products in BMD lines would benefit as well as any other third party card. In my world, Resolve is an important component, thus the reliance on BMD I/O. Fusion will grow in my workflow but for now the connector is not important due to the offline/online nature of the work I do.


Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 23, 2015 at 6:35:59 pm

[Michael Phillips] "Resolve is an important component, thus the reliance on BMD I/O."

Right. To be clear, the Avid version will be supported in Resolve according to the specs. It is unclear about the BMD versions DNxHD/HR support. I am wanting the output for monitoring 4K, the input for streaming 4K, and hopefully some acceleration for 4K on my laptop.

I suggested you review it due to your better than average Avid/technical knowledge and your apparent trustworthyness.

Take it EZ,
Robert


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Eric Santiago
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 24, 2015 at 1:24:51 pm

I have the UltraStudio 4K and I can stream 4K easily.
However our issues is that it doesnt play nice with a RED ROCKET.
Now were getting to that point where it doesnt make sense to use the ROCKET (unless were doing mass transcode) since I dont think Resolve/Avid is utilizing it in the new Mac Pro (according to some reliable sources).
Even Avid tech support replied that they do not support the ROCKET but I requested an official statement since a lot of their marketing and tech pages suggests it does.
Now as far as two Thunderbolt 2 ports on the UltraStudio 4K, I wonder if that was for video input?
I dont have a camera that does that but curious of thats the case.


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 24, 2015 at 2:01:47 pm

Most third parties are taking advantage of the GPU debayer of the R3D files that has been available in their SDK reducing the need for a ROCKET card in many situations.


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 24, 2015 at 3:35:14 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Now as far as two Thunderbolt 2 ports on the UltraStudio 4K, I wonder if that was for video input?
I dont have a camera that does that but curious of thats the case."


I have not tested one but as I understand it the capability is the same as the BMD mini recorder I have. One connects the camera to the UltraStudio and then the Thunderbolt to the computer and appropriate software can record or stream the signal from the camera. I use my mini recorder with Wirecast.

How are you doing UHD streaming? Using a vendor that supports UHD streams?

And as far as RedRocket, what I read is that it may help somewhat on big jobs but most folks seem to be abandoning it as MP indicated.

Thanks Folks,
Robert


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Eric Santiago
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 25, 2015 at 2:22:09 pm

[Robert Ober] "How are you doing UHD streaming? Using a vendor that supports UHD streams?"

Sorry Robert wrong choice of words.

I meant to say that Im viewing 4K via US4K.

In regards to the ROCKET, yes it is a fact that you dont need it if you have nMP with D700 and super fast RAID.
However for me its ability to spit out dailies that helps.
For the studio it doesnt sound like it does anything.
And I still cant get an official word from Avid support on where it helps in Avid MC.
I thought it on their website that it helps in Transcoding and more?


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 25, 2015 at 2:49:22 pm

RED ROCKET accelerates decode for a transcode. It does not accelerate playback. It also kicks in when rendering an R3D file, but only as a function of a decode, same as a transcode.


Michael


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Eric Santiago
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 25, 2015 at 3:17:10 pm

[Michael Phillips] "RED ROCKET accelerates decode for a transcode. It does not accelerate playback. It also kicks in when rendering an R3D file, but only as a function of a decode, same as a transcode.
"


Yep that I knew for years but needed Avid tech to support that but so far all I get is the "its not supported" jibber :P
Main reason I needed official word is so that I can tell the end user to not fixate on the ROCKET in our workflow.
Wasted so much time and resources dealing with BMD/Avid/RED/Apple on this :P


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jun 26, 2015 at 6:22:53 pm

[Eric Santiago] "Sorry Robert wrong choice of words.

I meant to say that Im viewing 4K via US4K."


Yeah, I figured you meant something like that. No Worries.

Somewhat surprised someone doesn't have a pre-realsed version for a first look type of article.

Y'all be cool,
Robert


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 19, 2015 at 12:29:54 am

This is more a machine room class type product with lots of signals

So I was thinking this might not be always true and ran across the following from Videoguys description:

"Avid Artist | DNxIO features a flexible form factor that fits in standard 19-inch equipment racks for easy integration into any workstation or edit bay"

Many edit bays/work areas/whatever you want to call them have 19" rack mounting and some of the rest of us have 19" rackmount flight cases. Considering the connectivity is via PCI or Thunderbolt I would bet most of them will not be in a machine room rack or closet.

Still hoping the MP will request one and review it:-)

Y'all be cool,
Robert

Robert A. Ober
IT Consultant, Vidcaster, & Freelancer
http://www.infohou.com
Houston, TX


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 19, 2015 at 1:38:02 am

I never really questioned its ability to be rack mounted, what I meant about machine room class device is all the different signal based SD/HD I/O for a variety of decks and the small confidence monitor to confirm an active signal.

In an edit bay, the monitoring will most likely be a calibrated monitor of some kind which will confirm whether there is signal.

Once we get this into the market, we will all have a better idea.


Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 19, 2015 at 4:17:56 pm

[Michael Phillips] "I never really questioned its ability to be rack mounted, what I meant about machine room class device is all the different signal based SD/HD I/O for a variety of decks and the small confidence monitor to confirm an active signal. "

Did not mean to suggest you did doubt it's rackability (I think I just made a new word?). Agree with the assessment of it's ingest capabilities. As I alluded to earlier, those ingest capabilities, along with 4k/UHD monitoring are what attracted me to the DNXIO. Hopefully we can turn off the front panel display for desk use.

And hopefully the acceleration applies to playback as well as rendering.

[Michael Phillips] "In an edit bay, the monitoring will most likely be a calibrated monitor of some kind which will confirm whether there is signal. "

Yep, even a bottomfeeder like myself has one of them calibrated displays:-)

Pleasure as always,
Robert


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 19, 2015 at 5:32:19 pm

Robert Ober: "And hopefully the acceleration applies to playback as well as rendering."

Perhaps over time, but for now, my understanding based on how the marketing is worded is that it is for signal based encoding only. Meaning when you are capturing via an HD, 2K, or 4K signal. I see nothing yet that suggests it will be used for transcoded, rendering, etc.


Michael


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Eric Santiago
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 20, 2015 at 12:50:13 pm

Held off on any pre-purchase options due to lack of communication with Avid Marketing/Support.
We still have a Nitris for the legacy but will trade it in for the DNxIO once I know what were really getting.


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 20, 2015 at 1:29:29 pm

I just saw via facebook, via twitter that Pro Tools will not support the DNxIO. Considering it's audio limitations, I don't think I would make this my first choice based on its price point to do video monitoring.

Perhaps it will be welcome in audio facilities that are responsible for the doing the audio lay back to the final master where tape deliverables are still required.

Other thoughts?


Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 20, 2015 at 3:47:31 pm

[Michael Phillips] "I just saw via facebook, via twitter that Pro Tools will not support the DNxIO. Considering it's audio limitations, I don't think I would make this my first choice based on its price point to do video monitoring. "

FUD from competitors?

ProTools support is listed in the specs for the DNXIO on Avid's website. It would be pretty odd for a new Avid device not to support ProTools.

BTW, I also have some nice UAD Apollo interfaces for audio. Recommended.

Y'all have a good week,
Robert


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 20, 2015 at 3:58:22 pm

It would be odd, but when DNxIO was announced at NAB, Pro Tools was not yet "supported" and one of those "in the future" items. it seems that it now has official support.

I wish MC would allow for video and audio to have two different I/O devices.


Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 20, 2015 at 4:55:45 pm

[Michael Phillips] "I wish MC would allow for video and audio to have two different I/O devices. "

Absolutely! With the ability to use third party devices now a reality I would not be surprised to see that happen eventually. I believe we could do that in FCP7.

Maybe I mentioned it, but the DNxIO should be really nice for those of us in the Resolve to MC to ProTools To MC to Resolve workflow. I am hoping Resolve 12 does support MC transitions, etc better for finishing and will install on Mavericks. I consider Yosemite a virus and even though BMD says it's required I am hoping they back down from that. We have let them know and I have a dongle.

Take it EZ,
Robert


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 24, 2015 at 10:59:23 pm

So they are sending mixed signals. I found this FAQ that indicates that ProTools support may not be enabled at launch.

http://avid.force.com/pkb/KB_Render_FAQ?id=kA0i0000000XxOT&lang=en_US

It also says released later in 2015. I'm thinking they are having issues with it. Makes me wonder how well the Fotokim units are behaving.

Y'all have some fun,
Robert


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 25, 2015 at 1:55:13 am

I doubt Fotokem has any units yet unless they have early units and MC software to support it. The press release is the usual one you see with company releases meant to validate the product more than anything. According to the main DNxIO landing page, it is still not available. "it is coming soon"
https://www.avid.com/US/products/artist-dnxio

I'm guessing Otober'ish along with the new free Media Composer|First.


Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 25, 2015 at 10:16:31 pm

[Michael Phillips] "I doubt Fotokem has any units yet unless they have early units and MC software to support it. The press release is the usual one you see with company releases meant to validate the product more than anything."

You're probably right. I'll probably contact one of their colorists who posts online.



[Michael Phillips] "I'm guessing Otober'ish along with the new free Media Composer|First."

I thought I saw something that said 3rd quarter which would be by the end of September so you may be right. Still expect someone will get a pre-release unit for review.

Hope your weekend is going well,
Robert


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 26, 2015 at 1:28:04 am

DNXIO could very well be released at IBC in September and the MC|First in the October timeframe. But then again, we're all guessing.


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 31, 2015 at 12:58:36 pm

Seems like a few DNxIO boxes are making their way out into the wild - perhaps an early beta for some folks? In the meantime, I came across this comment on the "Avid Editors of Facebook" page on Facebook:

" I am waiting on the new Avid version of the BM box and was told I would have to Uninstall all my software down to the base OS, install the box and its drivers and re-install, interplay, protools, media composer, davinci, in that order."

Maybe that is for early stage installs, but seems a bit excessive?? Maybe so that it can encode DNxHR from 2K/4K signals?



Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Jul 31, 2015 at 3:22:54 pm

[Michael Phillips] "Seems like a few DNxIO boxes are making their way out into the wild - perhaps an early beta for some folks? "

That's good news, maybe we will see a preview or review soon.


[Michael Phillips] (from a Facebook user)" I am waiting on the new Avid version of the BM box and was told I would have to Uninstall all my software down to the base OS, install the box and its drivers and re-install, interplay, protools, media composer, davinci, in that order.""

Wow. That would not be too terrible on this Late 2013 MBP with the built in SSD, but my Legacy Mac Pro would take some time to do that.


[Michael Phillips] "Maybe that is for early stage installs, but seems a bit excessive?? Maybe so that it can encode DNxHR from 2K/4K signals?"

Absolutely excessive, but having supported BETA software I do understand them wanting things clean. Not sure why it would be needed for DNxHR encoding.

At the risk of sounding like an old fart, I will say many support organizations are lazy these days. They want to/have to remote into your machine to troubleshoot and it takes an act of congress to get to someone who is not reading from a script.

Thanks much for the update,
Robert


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Aug 1, 2015 at 2:10:55 am

[Michael Phillips] "
" I am waiting on the new Avid version of the BM box and was told I would have to Uninstall all my software down to the base OS, install the box and its drivers and re-install, interplay, protools, media composer, davinci, in that order.""


Hey Again,

I put my feelings aside and logged into Facebook. Found the group. What day was the above posted?

Thanks MP,
Robert


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Robert Ober
Re: DNxIO
on Aug 3, 2015 at 1:13:31 am

[Robert Ober] " What day was the above posted?"

Never mind, I found it:-)


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