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Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K

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Adam Symes
Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 6, 2015 at 2:03:33 am

Hey guys, long time reader, first time poster. I'm in a bit of a bind, I've signed on to edit a feature film which is being shot on the Sony FS7 recording 4K ProRes XML files. I would like to edit a 1080p (or lower) proxy, I have a powerful system but 4K Kicks its ass.

So far I attempted direct 'import' by way of moving MXF files into the MC directory (MXF/1) But MC crashes upon detection and Digital Rebellion thingy says its a corrupt file, I know this is not the case.
Though it does AMA link no problem. When I click Consolidate/Transcode I'm unsure as to what to change to not affect the original files.

Can I work in MC only and send a cut via AFF to the grader? Or am I in fact better off starting in Resolve? Because I've tried the Round Trip and encountered the same MXF issues.

I'd really appreciate any advice or help that could be offered :)


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Bill Ravens
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 6, 2015 at 5:08:49 pm
Last Edited By Bill Ravens on Jun 6, 2015 at 5:10:24 pm

The MXF files out of the FS7 are different from the MXF files that MC writes to the Program Files folder. Sony MXF is called OP1a, which is an audio-video interleaved essence. The Avid MXF is op-atom, audio and video are separated. In order to AMA link or import Sony MXF into MC, you need to install the Sony MXF plugin, available at the Sony software website. Alternatively, you can convert the OP1a files to Avid OP1 with Resolve. Then copy the converted files into your Avid MXF folder.



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Michael Phillips
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 6, 2015 at 8:58:30 pm

With feature films, I would recommend a dailies workflow common with features. If you are familiar with Resolve, then do it there to an MXF/DNxHD 36 offline codec. Make sure to set the REEL in Resolve to ensure smooth conform later in Resolve or any application.



Is there jam synced timecode for audio (assuming double system)? Or will you be using something like PluralEyes? If so, then when making dailies decide what you want to do with audio on the source files if any. And if so, see my blog on the process with MC:
http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=218


Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 6, 2015 at 9:29:08 pm

[Michael Phillips] "With feature films, I would recommend a dailies workflow common with features. If you are familiar with Resolve, then do it there to an MXF/DNxHD 36 offline codec. Make sure to set the REEL in Resolve to ensure smooth conform later in Resolve or any application."

Hey Guru Phillips,

Didn't you have an article or whitepaper on the Resolve to Avid roundtripping workflow? I looked on your site and did not find it. I am trying to find the best one to which to refer people and in my mind yours would likely be the one.

BTW, Robert's rule number one for editors is "Start in Resolve". and your tip above helped me.

Hope you are well and good,
Robert

Robert A. Ober
IT Consultant, Vidcaster, & Freelancer
http://www.infohou.com
Houston, TX


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Michael Phillips
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 6, 2015 at 9:48:35 pm

I think different workflows don't necessarily needs to start in Resolve, but when I hear "feature film" then yes, start in a dailies type program.

I wrote this whitepaper for Avid a few years back for v7 when released but has not been updated for all the changes in v8.x:

http://www.avid.com/static/resources/documents/whitepapers/digital_camera/d...



Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 6, 2015 at 10:14:31 pm

[Michael Phillips] "I think different workflows don't necessarily needs to start in Resolve, but when I hear "feature film" then yes, start in a dailies type program."

Really? Don't mean to sound snotty, but what would be an example of something that would not want to start in Resolve? Other than ENG of course.

Thanks for the link, I posted that to a thread in the Sony FS7 forum.

Take it EZ,
Robert

Robert A. Ober
IT Consultant, Vidcaster, & Freelancer
http://www.infohou.com
Houston, TX


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Michael Phillips
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 7, 2015 at 2:24:50 pm

There is a handful of codecs that are considered "native" to Avid and only require a consolidate. Also, if I am working on a smaller project where I decide to transcode only once to my final quality, I may just do that directly in Media Composer via AMA link/transcode.

When it comes to double system audio, regardless of project types, I will always do it in a 35mm film project to have the ability to 1/4 frame slip sync as I mention in my blog:

http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=16

But for features, I always start in a dailies type product such as Resolve. From there I may decide to bake in color LUT for offline. But more and more I just transcode "LOG" and use a standard LUT or create a LUT in Resolve to use in Media Composer, or may use ASC CDL as color metadata. This way I can change the look and feel as a batch process working with my colorist as I edit. "Color as metadata" is changing the way productions can now look at how they approach the whole process. Even with an offline/online process.



Michael


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Robert Ober
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 7, 2015 at 2:42:50 pm

[Michael Phillips] "There is a handful of codecs that are considered "native" to Avid and only require a consolidate. Also, if I am working on a smaller project where I decide to transcode only once to my final quality, I may just do that directly in Media Composer via AMA link/transcode."

Yep, but I like to use the color controls in Resolve for creating the offline clips even though I have the Symphony option. And AMA is often a pain. You have seen people spend hours and even days complaining about AMA not working when they could have started in Resolve and been editing.

I was taught Consolidate was like Copy. Is there an article on the AMA then consolidate workflow?

I do follow your 35mm film project guide as I often shoot with multiple audio sources. I have been using PluralEyes for years.

I mostly shoot now with my FS7 in Slog3/Slog3.cine and apply Resolve's LC709A LUT as a starting point. I am hoping BMD does workout handling simple effects like crossdisolves from MC for the trip back to final color. Would like to finish in Resolve.

Other issue is that it looks like they are going to want Yosemite for V12 and that is annoying as Yosemite often does not play well with MC and devices.

Thanks for helping,
Robert

Robert A. Ober
IT Consultant, Vidcaster, & Freelancer
http://www.infohou.com
Houston, TX


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Adam Symes
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 8, 2015 at 3:08:23 am

Hi thanks so much for your reply. I've begun the transcode process, but I didn't sync the audio between the camera and the external recorder yet, I placed them in loose sequence across three audio tracks and presumed I'd be able to sync in MC faster because it is my native system. I hope this won't affect in a bad way? I didnt set the reel either as an oversight, I think I got steered clear as theres so many negative reports of reliking later and havig truble on account of the reel.

How will I go about syncing my edit with the original 4k footage? Im burning in file name and timecode on the proxy, I instinctively feel this is something for the proxy alone and won't carry over..?

The DoP has agreed to shoot 1080 from now on, so at least transcoding will be a smoother timelier process.

I appreciate the help


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Michael Phillips
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 8, 2015 at 1:03:12 pm

If you're making Avid media in Resolve, you absolutely need to assign a REEL as that is what gets embedded into the MediaFile as "Tape" and will be used for relink, lists, dupe detection, etc. This is a fundamental error done by users with little to no experience in the post process compounded by the fact that there are videos showing you how to do it wrong... grrrrr.

The fact that is shot 4K or 1080 has no bearing on the REEL and conform process. Proper REEL assignment is essential regardless of resolution. If you are in 8.3 for example, you might consider making 4K compressed dailies and work in 1080 to have FrameFlex capabilities etc. But those workflows also take planning.

Make sure you have REEL assigned. If you want to mimic what Media Composer does, then make sure "assist conform" is set to using clip's file name.

As far as audio is concerned, you can sync via the timeline as you mention, then subclip each segment out and AutoSync those, or just mark the source clips with a Mark IN and sync two at a time with AutoSync, or if they have common timecode, just select all video and audio clips and use AytoSync. If you use PluralEyes (even their free 30 day trial) then refer to my blog on the topic:

http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=218


Michael


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Adam Symes
Re: Media Composer 8 - Resolve Roundtrip - Sony XML 4K
on Jun 18, 2015 at 12:25:10 am

Thank you so much Michael Phillips. I have transcoded a lot of data to this point, but at no point did I assign the reel name as you suggest but I have performed several small tests in relinking footage to complete success. Will this become an issue as time when I start cutting footage together on a larger scale and attempting to relink?


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