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DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7

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Eric Ivey
DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 5:17:40 pm
Last Edited By Eric Ivey on Mar 26, 2015 at 6:43:13 pm

Hello,

This is my first post to to creative cow. I have found so much useful information here, and I really appreciate all of you who help out.

I am working in a 1080p 23.98fps project in Avid MC 7. As it is 2015 most of our files have been ProRes 422, 422 HQ, and very few h.264. I recently received some footage from a Panasonic HDX900, and the camera operator said he shot in 24p. The Files are DVCPRO HD (1080i60). I have tried all the typical ways of importing and transcoding, (AMA link, consolidate transcode, direct import,) The aspect ratio if fine, but none of these methods seem to do the trick in terms of smooth playback. My guess is that it's the extra frames (I don't really understand the way the DVCPRO HD codec works), but the footage doesn't play back smooth, and there is some ghosting.

I talked to a technician at a large post house and he said we need to do a reverse telecine or 3:2 pull down using a professional converter like black magic teranex. Is this true?

Isn't this camera a professional broadcast camera? Is this the workflow people use for this camera when using it in a 1080p 24fps project?

Any insights would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you!


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Shane Ross
Re: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 8:47:24 pm

Yes, that is a professional broadcast camera. One that doesn't shoot DVCPRO HD 1080 at 23.98 native (DVCPRO HD at 1080 is 29.97 only). It shoots 1080i 24pA...A meaning ADVANCED PULLDOWN REMOVAL. FCP 7 is able to remove this pulldown when importing. Avid...you need to do a few more things.

Make a 1080i 59.94 project. AMA link to all of the footage in there, and consolidate to your media drive.

Copy the capture bin from that project into your 23.98 one. Drop some of those clip onto a timeline. They should have a green dot on them. Open the Motion Effects Editor while parked on a clip.. Click the promote button. Now you should have an option to remove pulldown. Adjust untill there are no artifacts. You can then transcode these clips to make native 23.976 footage if you need to have it that way.

Unless someone has a better way.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Eric Ivey
Re: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 9:10:57 pm

Thanks Shane!

I will give that a shot. In terms of preserving quality, the camera operator still has the tapes, would it better to capture from the tapes? This is for a feature length Doc with a budget for theatrical release, so I want make sure I get the best quality possible. would it be better to use a converter like black magic Teranex?

Thanks!


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Shane Ross
Re: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 9:30:39 pm

Yes, get the tapes and capture. Avid should see the pulldown and remove it upon capture. Not sure if it does this via Firewire...might need a MOJO DX or NITRIS DX for this. FCP always dealt with the DVCPRO HD format best. That's the main reason I switched from Avid to FCP...many docs using DVCPRO HD cameras, and FCP captured the footage from them best. Avid was always tricky.

Terranex? No need for that, I don't think. I think the newer Avid software captures this properly. But I haven't needed to do it myself. Just spoke to my assistant and he said that you used a 23.98 project, but the deck was set to 59.94i and you somehow in the Avid indicated to remove pulldown on capture by going into the FILM settings (because many film projects shot on film were telecined at 29.97, and in order to work with the actual frames we needed to remove pulldown). Or do you switch the deck to 23.98...but at that point, the deck only outputs 720p? He couldn't remember...it's been too long.

This is VERY easy with FCP. Avid, as I said, was always trickier.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Eric Ivey
Re: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 9:39:45 pm

Thanks again Shane!
To make it easy, what about generating ProRes files using FCP7, then transcoding to DNxHD in Avid?


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Shane Ross
Re: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 9:42:28 pm

OK, if you import this file into FCP...capture using FCP to make a DVCPRO HD file with pulldown removed...that file you made can ONLY be opened on a computer with FCP or Compressor installed. The codec is tied to FCP. So, if you then want to make it DNxHD, you need to convert it to that format on the computer with FCP installed. EditReady will do this (convergentmedia.com)...Squeeze will do this. I think MPEG STREAMCLIP will do this...but you need to have the Avid codecs installed on the computer.

Unless FCP and Avid are both installed on the same computer...then converting is easy...or you can then AMA and transcode as Avid will be able to see the media as you have FCP on the system.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Eric Ivey
Re: DVCPRO HD (1080i60) in 1080p 23.98fps project Avid MC 7
on Mar 26, 2015 at 9:47:15 pm

Great! I have a system with Avid and FCP7. It seems like I have a solution. Thanks again for all your help!


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Scott Freeman
2:3:3:2 cadence removal in an 1080p/23.976 fps Avid Project
on Apr 17, 2015 at 5:27:31 am
Last Edited By Scott Freeman on Apr 23, 2015 at 7:04:47 am

Maybe this is a possible Avid solution for 2:3:3:2 cadence removal?

Master clips that live in a bin pointing to essence with 2:3:3:2 cadence, the "Field Motion" column populated with "2:3 Film".


Example:
01:00:00:00 - both fields to construct the new "A" 23.976 frame.
01:00:00:01 & 02 - frame 01 field 2 and frame 02 field 1 will make up the new "B" 23.976 frame.
01:00:00:03 - both fields will construct the new "C" 23.976 frame.
01:00:00:04 - both fields will be used to make up the new "D" 23.976 frame.

If the video is a 2:3:3:2 panasonic advanced pulldown cadence source file:
Bring the master clip into a 23.976 fps project and under the "Field Motion" click and select "2:3 Film".



Also, if the user promotes a motion effect to a timewarp effect (parking the blue position indicator on a clip in a sequence loaded in the "Record Monitor") and uses the "Type: Both Fields" - "Source Film With 2:3 Pulldown" - "2:3 Pulldown: BB BC CD DD AA" selection is also removing the 2:3:3:2 cadence.




I hope this is helpful information!!!

- scott freeman


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