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25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps

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Sarah Bright
25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 7, 2015 at 9:44:56 pm

Hi guys,
I'm editing a gaming video trailer for a website and I cut with 25fps clips I was provided with, which were just rough clips until I got the high res versions.

I planned to eye match my shots with the new footage but it's now come to me as 30fps. I reclocked them to 25fps which caused ghosting so I scrapped that and AMA'd the original 30fps clips into avid and transcoded them to 2997fps into Avid. This throws my edit out a few frames (which is ok) but when I eye match in the 2997fps versions onto my 25fps timeline, the ghosting appears again.

Opening up my 25fps timeline in a 2997fps project won't work either.

How do I go about getting the new footage into my edit without the ghosting and without having to recut the entire thing again?

Thanks in advance.


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Michael Phillips
Re: 25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 7, 2015 at 10:00:47 pm

Why would the high rez versions be at a different frame rate than the low rez versions? Frame rate conversion in Media Composer is geared more towards real time performance than it is for quality. High quality conversions are usually done with dedicated hardware based systems like Teranex, Snell & Wilcox, etc. Also, 25p to 29.97p and vice versa is the worst of scenarios to deal with. 25p to 29.97i (59.94 interlace) can look OK if viewed on an interlace monitor, but ghosting will still appear like any interlace with movement on a progressive screen - field blending with no motion compensation. You can change the motion effect type to something else and remove ghosting, but it does so by dropping frames - so it's up to you, and what you think looks best for your primary delivery requirement.


Michael


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John Pale
Re: 25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 8, 2015 at 1:40:33 am

I'm a little confused.

If your high res footage is 29.97, why not open a copy of your 25 fps sequence in a 29.97 project. The temp footage will have ghosting, but who cares? You are replacing it anyway.

Is the 29.97 footage ghosting in a 29.97 sequence as well? If so, you need to redo how you converted it from 30 to 29.97.


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Michael Phillips
Re: 25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 8, 2015 at 1:54:35 am

This might work for you.

http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=22


Michael


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Sarah Bright
Re: 25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 8, 2015 at 4:28:13 pm

I'm not sure why the new footage in 30fps... I'd made 'same as source' prores qts as the original files were mp4s and they're for some reason 30fps but the raws are actually 60fps not 30fps! So, I'll need to remake them anyway... I made them in media encoder with same as source settings so I'm not sure why they're 30fps and not 60.

Anyway, I can't open a 25fps sequence in a 2997 project. Avid won't let me do that, hence my problem, otherwise I would have done that straight off the bat. I've also tried AMA-ing them in and consolidating them and letting Avid do the frame rate conversion.
No, the 29.97 footage isn't ghosting in a 29.97 sequence... I can open the 2997 clips in the 25 project and it looks ok but it's when I bang it on the timeline is where the problem lies.

I've realised that when the clips are in the sequence and has that green dot, it's ok but when it's rendered that's when the ghosting comes in.

So, what I need to do it get the 60fps clips into a 25fps project... I didn't think avid had issues with different frame rates in one project.

Sarah


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Adnan Siddiqui
Re: 25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 8, 2015 at 4:37:42 pm

To understand ur problem plz upload sample file


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Michael Phillips
Re: 25fps timelline issues now needs to be 29.97fps
on Jan 8, 2015 at 4:48:44 pm

Media Encoder may have done some form of frame rate conversion to start with. Assuming the 60fps original was progressive as in 59.94p? And the resulting 29.97 file, was it progressive or interlace? Timecode will be 29.97 for either 29.97p or 29.97 interlace (59.94 fields). If going from 59.94 progressive to 29.97 progressive, and single frame will have blended motion unless there was a deinterlace process and one of the frame dropped (cutting your vertical resolution in half and scaling).

This then somehow got turned into 25p using Avid Mix & Match which maintains duration by some combination of frame blending which adds another pass of ghosting. You also want to make sure that you are looking at your timeline in green-green mode, or better yet, export a full JPEG/Tiff to compare final output.

I wrote another blog of what motion effects did in progressive projects and what the different settings can so. Blended of course creates blended frames while duplicate does not, but will drop frames to maintain time.

You can read about that here: http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=203

You have the ability for each motion effect (once promoted) to change the type of algorithm used.

As far as not being able to open 25fps in 29.97 project, I have never heard of that. From the 29.97 project you open the bin with the sequence from the 25p project. When loading into the timeline, it will prompt you to change frame rate to match project.


Michael


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