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AMA from 2 projects

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Glenn Sakatch
AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 14, 2014 at 9:40:31 pm

Here is the scenario. (be prepared...this takes a while)

City 1 edits a 3 part documentary on a Mac trash can. Tons of footage. Name a type of footage, it is probably in here. For the final editor involvement, we are talking half 4k footage transcoded down to 115mxfs, and half quicktimes recordings that are being AMA linked.

As far as the actual edit goes, everything runs smoothly. The mxfs run as they should, and the vast amount of AMA media is running very smooth as well. (pleasant surprise there)

Next stage of the game, City 2 is performing some fx and Fine cut work to the edit on show 1 while City 1 works on show 2.

City 2 is working on a PC system. Creates a new project,to work from, and then loads up the original project to see what's what, before copying the edit bin over to the new project. All the mxf media comes in perfectly, and the ama media is offline. (not surprised at all, as all the paths are wrong for the ama footage)

City 2 manually links to all the ama footage, which automatically populates the original bins as the footage is identified and brought back on line. (perfect!)

Again, City 2 is working from their own project, just accessing the edit bin created by City 1. Actually, City 2 is working off a copy of that bin.

Now the fun begins. If City 2 opens up the City 1 project to find an original bin/clip location, when he jumps back to his project, about 30 to 40 percent of the ama media is offline, and needs to be relinked again. City 2 can go days without losing AMA link, but if they have to open the original project, the new project always loses some of its links. Fine, they struggle through and finish their end of the edit, and send a list, and a project up to City 1.

Now City 1 opens the project created by City 2, and guess what- the reverse happens. Every link in the City 1 (original) project goes offline!

At some point, there is a hierarchy of control over these AMA links, but I can't figure out where it is. In one case the newly created project was being over run by the original project...I almost understand that, but then the tables were reversed, and this newly created project killed the original projects links.

Both a full project, and an aaf list had the same results.

What we really need is an easier way to call up a set of ama files, and batch change the hard drive path that Avid is looking for when it searches these files. Much like the old "Modify" command for source name.

But the real question is, Is there a setting that is controlling this hierarchy of path control?

Glenn


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Shane Ross
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 14, 2014 at 10:38:20 pm

Don't edit with AMA footage. It's that simple. Just don't do it. AMA to ACCESS, but then transcode. Avid has VERY little issues relinking to Avid media in the Avid file structure. Even if you push projects back and forth. But AMA will always go offline.

Save the headache...transcode the footage.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 14, 2014 at 10:48:53 pm

I understand the whole "transcode and cut" idea, but really, that is usually based more on performance.

I'm dealing with 8 months worth of footage for these docs. Probably 10TB of MXF, and 10TB of AMA. I'm amazed how well the ama clips are responding. For the most part, I don't know the difference between ama and mxf media. The root of the problem though is "why does it go offline?" and "Why can't we have an easier way of putting it back online"

As I said, in the original post, I could work for days on end without any snag at all, but as soon as I opened that other project, all hell broke loose. Again, even that I can understand. It was linking to its original location, fine. Why does it have to then tell my project...a totally different project...to change its location? That makes no sense. There is an undelying AMA manager at play here that is doing more than it should.

We can complain about AMA vs transcodes all we want...this is a bug that should be fixed, or a part of the program that should be addressed. The actual working with AMA is smooth as silk.

Glenn


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Shane Ross
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 14, 2014 at 11:56:52 pm

[Glenn Sakatch] " The root of the problem though is "why does it go offline?" "

Because the media isn't in the Avid file structure...and that's the BEST way Avid tracks it. AMA is new, and still pretty fragile. Fine if you are on one system...start adding in a second, and swapping projects and copying footage to different locations? Watch out.

[Glenn Sakatch] and "Why can't we have an easier way of putting it back online" "

See above.


[Glenn Sakatch] "As I said, in the original post, I could work for days on end without any snag at all, but as soon as I opened that other project, all hell broke loose."

Because you are changing systems...and file paths. That's the issue. ONe project knows the file path. Take that sequence to another machine, the file path is completely different...so the footage goes offline.

Shane
Little Frog Post
Read my blog, Little Frog in High Def


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John Pale
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 15, 2014 at 12:18:56 am

No matter what, I always recommend not editing with AMA, but .....

Are you using MC 7 or 8..??

AMA is managed like "regular" avid footage in those versions. I am curious if it behaves better.


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Michael Phillips
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 15, 2014 at 1:22:41 am

John Pale: "AMA is managed like "regular" avid footage in those versions. I am curious if it behaves better."

Avid marketing that, but I could never get Avid to detail what those benefits were exactly and many people have turned that off via the console command due to performance issues. I doubt it will solve this particular workflow configuration. But would love to be wrong.

Michael


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 15, 2014 at 1:56:18 pm

That's what I'm wondering...Are the ama databases that get built screwing everything up each time. Can I save my databases once my links are stable, and restore them if my links all get changed?

I actually tried turning the AMA management off yesterday, but it continues to fill the AMA management folder with data.

I'll look into that some more today.

Glenn


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 15, 2014 at 2:06:10 pm

[Glenn Sakatch] "As I said, in the original post, I could work for days on end without any snag at all, but as soon as I opened that other project, all hell broke loose."

Because you are changing systems...and file paths. That's the issue. ONe project knows the file path. Take that sequence to another machine, the file path is completely different...so the footage goes offline


That's not what is happening....I'm not taking it to another machine. I'm opening two different projects on one machine, and it keeps wiping the info.

I'm tired of people saying "ama is new" It isn't new. We are into 3 years of this linking issue now.

Put a button on another piece of software that doesn't work for 3 years and see how that goes over.

This is not supposed to be a thread about bashing AMA, or Avid. I love Avid, and after most of this process, I'm actually loving AMA, I just want a better database management of the ama links, or at the very least, a better batch re-link option. The "relink to ama files" option is painful,having to manually select each files location.

FCP used to have media go offline all the time, but you could point it to the root of where the footage was, and it would figure it out from there.

After Effects does the same thing. Help it find 1 missing file, and the program says "hey, there's the rest of those files!"

AMA needs that bit of intelligence built into it, and most of this relinking issues will disappear.

Glenn


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John Pale
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 15, 2014 at 5:49:24 pm

If you are feeling lucky, you may want to try this.

alt drag all the media files from a Finder window of the AMA drive to an empty bin. This should AMA link those files (if in version 7 or above).

Now open your original bins/sequences. Are the AMA files linked across the board.?

I've had this work in a more limited scenario.


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Glenn Sakatch
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 15, 2014 at 6:01:40 pm

I like the Alt Drag. That looks like it will make it much easier for everyone if (when) they go offline again.

The program has no problem at all relinking old links, if I can get the ama media online somewhere...anywhere, so this might be a good intermediate solution.

(until Avid has more than a few years to work on the problem:)

If this works like a regular relinking session, I can actually delete these new links once the program has it in its memory, and the original links will still work. (keeps everything cleaner)

Thanks John

Glenn


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Oliver Peters
Re: AMA from 2 projects
on Oct 16, 2014 at 3:52:45 pm

FWIW - I've had various AMA issues when moving projects between editors. If you are on different versions, it's horrible, because AMA management has evolved with each MC version. I've had cases where I had to manually relink. It all worked, but lost the camera timecode. Basically, I'm in the camp that says "don't edit with AMA". Use it to cull selects and then transcode those. Then fine cut with Avid media. Ironically Apple has come to that same conclusion based on how FCP X handles media these days.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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