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Drop Frame question

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Mike Kahn
Drop Frame question
on Oct 8, 2014 at 9:54:02 pm

I'm back on Avid after years on FCP and most recently premiere pro. I was cutting in a title placeholder that needs to be exactly two minutes long. When I create the title using the title tool, it's duration is 1:59;28. Why isn't it 1:59;29?

When I type into the timeline to go to 01:02:00:00 (I know that's not a real timecode in drop frame) it takes me to 01:01:59;28. Why wouldn't it take me to either 59;29 or 02:00;02?


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Scott Cole
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 12:05:46 am

Given that DF timecode drops 2 frames each minute, the drop points take you to even numbers. Editors (as in software, not the person) can interpret the minute mark as hh:01:59:28 or hh:02:00:02, going to 59:29 or 00:01 would be an odd number of frames. Most editors I've worked with, including CMX and Avid and Lightworks used the 59:28 as the minute mark (i.e. rounded down). Only Sony editors use the 01:02 for minute marks. Quite frankly I always find it very annoying. If I'm cutting a 10 second spot that starts on the non-existent even minute, the old CMX method, which Avid uses, lets you use 01:10:00 as the correct end of a 10 second spot. But using the Sony Method, a 10 second spot would have to end at 01:10:02. This to me is a major PITA.

One other note, DF does not drop any frames at the 10 minute marks, including hours.

M. Scott Cole
Senior Post Production Editor
60 MINUTES
CBS News, NYC
sc6@cbsnews.com
mscottc@comcast.net


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Mike Kahn
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 12:52:23 am

I appreciate the response Scott. It makes no sense that an editor would skip valid timecodes because they're odd numbers. I've tried in both FCP and premiere and both put the in point on hh:00:00;00 and the out at hh:01:59;29. The next clip would begin at hh:02:00;02. This is just accepted as how avid does df timecode?


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Scott Cole
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 1:26:06 am

Let me lay out a sequence of frames first

01:59:28 01:59:29 02:00:00 02:00:01 02:00:02 02:00:03

The dropped frames (I really should say timecode addresses, as actual video frames are never really dropped) are the bolded ones. So in a cadence in which we deal with boundaries that are measured in even frames such as :00, the prior or next frames that are even are 59:28 or 00:02, so those will always represent what we count as an even minute in lieu of the missing :00

M. Scott Cole
Senior Post Production Editor
60 MINUTES
CBS News, NYC
sc6@cbsnews.com
mscottc@comcast.net


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Mike Kahn
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 1:38:07 pm

So if you had to deliver a two minute spot, your out point would be 1:59;58 or 1:59;59?


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Scott Cole
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 2:35:17 pm

Actually, 01;01;59;28. Note the use of
semi colons to indicate dropframe.

M. Scott Cole
Senior Post Production Editor
60 MINUTES
CBS News, NYC
sc6@cbsnews.com
mscottc@comcast.net


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Mike Kahn
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 4:48:39 pm

Thanks for your input Scott.


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Scott Cole
Re: Drop Frame question
on Oct 9, 2014 at 10:46:38 pm

Mike,
You're welcome... any time.

M. Scott Cole
Senior Post Production Editor
60 MINUTES
CBS News, NYC
sc6@cbsnews.com
mscottc@comcast.net


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