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Transcode 25 fps to 29.97

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Dan Brother
Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:45:04 pm

Hi all. I'm working with MC 6.5.1 (fairly sure...not in front of it at the moment). I'm going to be receiving some footage from the UK that was shot at 25 fps - progressive. It will be in ProRes format (not the original raw footage). I need to bring it into a 1080p/29.97 fps project. I know the Avid can't handle this. I'm wondering if anyone might have any recommendations on the best software to use to achieve this feat. Thanks for your help!
Dan Brother


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Job ter Burg
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:50:10 pm
Last Edited By Job ter Burg on Oct 6, 2014 at 7:52:26 pm

Avid MC in fact _will_ handle that for you. It has had Mix&Match for many versions.

If you link to the 25fps clips in your 29.97 project and transcode, the framerate conversion will be baked in. That is not really the recommended method. Better workflow is to open the 25p clips in a 25p project, transcode the clips at 25p, then open the bin with the resulting 25p clips in a 29.97 timeline. You will notice a green dot, which is a motion adapter that keeps the material running at 100% realtime, enforcing a framerate conversion. You can adjust this, or even promote it to a TimeWarp, which gives you a whole lot more control over how the framerate conversion will look.

That said, a framerate conversion from 25p to 29.97p is not an easy one – not for any software. If quality is paramount, it could be a wiser choice to have everything converted through an Alchemist. But you can also first try the in-MC method and see if that works for you. If not, pull the selects and have them converted and match them back in.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 6, 2014 at 9:25:56 pm

Also make sure you be looking at results in green/green mode, and since interlace is your final delivery, look at it in an interlace monitor in order to make final quality judgements. Look at a variety of footage with different kinds of movement to get an idea of the final results.


Michael


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Clement Hobbs
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 6, 2014 at 10:40:02 pm

You might also consider moving the footage from 25 to 23.98fps as a first step. Once you're there, add pulldown to end up with a 1080i 29.97 clip (if your final timeline will be 1080i based).

I'm not sure how this would look (25->24) using the Avid since I've always changed frame rates outside of MC.

Good luck!


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Job ter Burg
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 7, 2014 at 8:28:10 pm

OP wants to go to 29.97p. That's what makes it complicated. I think 25p to 29.97i should be quite OK.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 7, 2014 at 8:36:50 pm

Should be mostly OK - it won't be a consistent 2:3 cadence for every second, so depending on motion type it may have a "beat" to it. I'll have to map it out and see what it looks like.

Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 7, 2014 at 9:22:59 pm

Just for fun I did a quick test of 25p to 59.95i and 23.976p to 59.94i. Keep in mind that is going from progressive to interlace and now viewed as full progressive frames. But it does show you the difference between the two conversions. When viewed on an interlace monitor it will be less obvious, but then I have to ask how many interlace monitors is content being delivered to these days? Interlace content on progressive monitors is subject to how the monitor can deal with it - some are better at it than others.

As you can see in the two screenshots, the 25p to 59.94 always has a blended frame regardless of where it falls in the cadence and you can even see a hint of a triple frame blend on frame _009. On the 23.976 to 59.94 it is a clean repeated pattern (2:3).

25p


23.976p



Michael


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Dan Brother
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 9, 2014 at 4:30:04 am

Thanks for all your help on this, guys!! I wish I could report some results here, but a really funny/horrible thing happened. The production company in the UK shipped the footage on a drive that they tossed in a fedex bag with absolutely no packing material. After it's trans-atlantic ass whopping, the drive was dead on arrival. Unbelieveable. So now we're waiting for them to ship another (properly packed) drive. Hope to get on this project soon.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 9, 2014 at 1:04:37 pm

I thought I read somewhere than when a drive is physically shipped across international boundaries, its media contents automatically convert to the local standard... ;)

Michael


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Dan Brother
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 6, 2014 at 10:39:14 pm

Hi. Thank you for your response. I've mixed 24p in a 29.97 project before and have had bad results. The Avid may allow it, but it caused a lot of issues and isn't pretty. : )

I've never tried to ingest 25p footage and have no idea how it would handle it.

Unfortunately 25p is not an option in Media Composer (that I know of). Just the usual 1080i, 1080p, 720p, and 30i. Maybe V7 has changed to include other options, but I haven't heard anything about.

I like the Alchemist idea. Seems like the best option as far as quality is concerned.

Dan


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Michael Phillips
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 7, 2014 at 3:14:54 am

There are three different 25p projects to choose from:
PAL 25p
720p/25
1080/25

The 25p to 23.976 is a good idea as long as you can do a frame for frame (slow down) from 25 to 23.976, then the resulting 23.976 clip will have standard 2:3 pulldown applied to it which is the best you can expect quality wise. But mix and match default is to maintain duration, so you would have to manage the frame for frame slow down, and if there is sync audio, you would need to manage that as well.


Michael


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Dan Brother
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 7, 2014 at 5:41:11 pm

Thank you Michael. I will give that a try. Footage arriving today. Fingers crossed.

Dan


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Job ter Burg
Re: Transcode 25 fps to 29.97
on Oct 7, 2014 at 7:52:18 pm

25p has been available for PAL and HD project formats for a long time.


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