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workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)

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Oleg Simonenko
workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 21, 2014 at 4:32:17 am

Here the story: we did documentary filming on RED Scarlett and SD664. No clapperboard, no Jamming. Yes, it's terrible situation. Each day we zeroed TC manually on RED and SD664 simultaneously. So, obviously TC was not in sync, and difference is changes day from day.

For editing i did DNxHD36 proxies (with reference audio, recorded on RED) in RedCine X, and sent them to edit in AVID MC. Editing is half finished now, and i'm trying to figure out how-to make new SYNCed proxies with sound from SD664 and relink AVID MC sequence to them.

I did sync thru Pluraleyes and made subclips with audio from SD664, but i can't relink sequence to sub clips.. (

Please, give some advice for next steps

Thank you all


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Michael Phillips
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 21, 2014 at 1:51:27 pm

Relink is a process that is accomplished by having a common source ID and timecode. The issue in your workflow is that it doesn't have this, and the fact that you are doing it after the fact. In this scenario, syncing should have been done prior to editorial so that a "conform" to non timecoded (or non-matching) could occur. You may very well have to match each of the synced clips and do an edit-overwrite.

Michael


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Oleg Simonenko
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 22, 2014 at 7:50:07 am

Maybe not the most effective way, but i found solution:
- sync sequence in Pluraleyes
- for each clip, which have synced SD664 sound, i look to TC window in AVID MC (i set it to show me Video source TC and Audio source TC).
- calculate TC difference between video and audio
- change start TC for audio in Wave Agent
- generate new proxies in Redcine with synced SD664 audio
- relink original sequence to new proxies


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Michael Phillips
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 22, 2014 at 1:55:27 pm

That should work, just make sure that start of the audio file in MC is the same start in the original WAV file. Typically sound starts "rolling" before camera and will have different start times.

The other issue you will have is what is the "source" name being used? In order to conform or relink you need a common source/REEL ID and timecode. In your scenario you are fixing the timecode, but the filename should also match the sources from an EDL generated from your reference edit - which would be the R3D filename.


Michael


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Oleg Simonenko
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 26, 2014 at 5:31:26 am
Last Edited By Oleg Simonenko on Jan 26, 2014 at 7:25:10 am

Michael, thank you for helping. I have few questions more:

If R3D filename is A033_C011_02103I then WAV filename should be A033_C011_02103I.WAV ? Or 033T11.WAV ?

When i'm exporting from Redcine-X new DNxHD media with audio tracks from SD664 files with corrected TC, this audio MXF's are empty or corrupted. Maybe this is a bug of Redcine-X (v 22.1). So, i unable just relink MC sequence to new media with SD664 sound ((

What should be my next steps?


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Michael Phillips
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:01:40 pm

As much as Redcine X and Resolve are improving in areas of double system sync workflows, they still need to do a bit of work with the metadata to make it easier to deal with in downstream processes. I still prefer to sync all my dailies in Media Composer as it keeps all metadata from both sources active.

That being said, your sequence refers to source clips that only have the R3D file name as source. In your case under the TAPE column as they were created in Redcine X. The filename should be the R3D name on the WAV file as in A033_C011_02103I but the WAV extension at the desktop will look like A033_C011_02103I.wav. You can import those into a bin and you will see that name in the Source File column (not tape) unless you open each one of those files in Wave Agent and add the corresponding R3D file name to the TAPE field. In this example, A033_C011_02103I.

Once that is done, you will take your sequence and do a "relink to selected" where "selected" are the newly imported BWF files. You will have to tweak your settings a bit, but once you get that far, hit us up again and we'll get you over the finish line.


Michael


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Michael Phillips
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 26, 2014 at 3:03:20 pm

Another question that might save a little time, is did you merge the ALE from the REDCINE X export into your clips? There may be a column in there that has the original WAV file name that you can use with "relink to selected" with a little copy/paste into the SoundRoll column.

Michael


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Oleg Simonenko
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 28, 2014 at 9:42:51 am

Michael, your suggestions was extremely helpful. Successfully relinked sequence to external audio (Camroll to Soundroll option in MC, where Camroll edited to WAV filename)


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Michael Phillips
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 28, 2014 at 1:19:27 pm

Glad it worked out. In the future, it is easier to do this before editing than deal with edited sequences and the relink process.

Michael


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Oleg Simonenko
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 29, 2014 at 7:41:19 am
Last Edited By Oleg Simonenko on Jan 29, 2014 at 11:35:36 am

Few more questions:
sequence have V1A1 tracks. SD664 audio have A1-A3. How is possible to use A3 from SD664 instead A1 for relink ?
Should i use AMA or transcode to AIFF-C for importing WAV's to MC if i planning to edit sound in Pro Tools?


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Michael Phillips
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Jan 29, 2014 at 1:20:17 pm

I cannot whjoleheaterdly support the WAC AMA plug-in at this time as I speak to in my blog: http://24p.com/wordpress/?p=144

A relink only uses the metadata that exists on both sides and match - so A1 to A1, etc. A trick that may work is to export an audio only EDL from the sequence, edit the tracks in a text editor to replace A1 with A3, import EDL back into Media Composer, relink that to the WAV files and edit that audio only sequence back into your original sequence. Because these are R3D filenames, make sure you select the File_16 template in order to support the entire string.

If going to ProTools, you can let the conform to the WAV files via the A1 EDL and ProTools has features that would let them easily use different tracks from the same file.


Michael


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Eric Santiago
Re: workflow troubles (Redcine+Avid+Pluraleyes) for dual system (TC not in SYNC)
on Sep 9, 2014 at 1:52:54 am

Late to the party but I had to jump in and ask a few questions.

First off, there is no Audio Sync by Waveform similar to FCPX and PluralEyes in Avid right?
Yes Ive been using Avid for a long time but as far as plug-ins, I dont stray from the basics e.g. Sapphire and Boris.
Ive asked this question at the Avid forum but figured Id jump in here and ask away.
My workflow is almost the same. Full feature using my Scarlet and a SD 744T but no jam/timecode sync.
There is scratch audio good enough for me to sync using FCPX Audio Sync option. Its pretty bang on but my goal is to get all this in Avid and maintain the meta data flow to round trip back to Resolve.
It seems FCPX 10.1.3 and Resolve 11 are the only combinations that will let you read the FCPX XML Audio Synced files.
Problem is that after exporting to Avid AAF, its a freakin crap shoot whether most, some or any of the files transfer over.
Ive had mixed results every time :(


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