FORUMS: list search recent posts

With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?

COW Forums : Avid Media Composer

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Bryan Roberts
With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 7, 2013 at 4:40:14 pm

My jaw dropped when I heard yesterday that Adobe would be forcing all CS applications into a "cloud based" subscription system. I had my eye on Premiere and was wondering if they'd slowly take the reins from the disgruntled FCP7 market as Final Cut post houses / edit facilities / production houses slowly begin transitioning their systems away from FCP7 and this beloved version fades into oblivion. Sure Avid has always been the "safe" bet for long term viability in non-linear editing since the beginning but with Apple seriously threatening a few years ago and Adobe really putting some weight behind Premiere, it was looking like we had 3 strong contenders. I can't help but feel that after yesterdays announcement, many of the influential production houses in LA and NY who were already wary of getting burned with their next big system purchases (both waiting to see about new Mac Pros and what editing platform best suits their needs) by an Apple type move ala the wild FCPX shift, had some serious flashbacks to what happens when big companies take radical moves without much consideration for the higher end pro market. To clear it up, the Creative Cloud DOES NOT require an always on connection and it is not cloud computing, meaning the software is still stored on your machine like always which are both good things. It does require a serial key verification every 30 days and if you stop your subscription, you obviously have no way of opening your projects. I'm unclear as to if you stop your subscription and then start back say a year or so later, if you'd be able to download ANY previous version of the software that, lets say, was the most stable on your machine.

Obviously Creative Cloud will be great for a younger generation to have easier access to once prohibitively expensive software at an easier to swallow monthly fee but for shops in the big LA, NY markets who need rock solid releases, dependability and no reliance on someone else's servers being available for verification (and I've worked places where they prohibited any internet access to edit machines), the Creative Cloud could be the death knell for Premiere in the high end market. Others will argue that getting the software in as many hands as possible at a low monthly fee will push the younger generation to adopt it faster and in the long run, give it dominance as this younger generation grows into the professional work space. I'd argue that when you're entering the professional edit market, you generally have to work on whatever machine is provided to you by that gig and if you're working on anything with a bigger budget, you won't have the option of just editing on your own machine at home by yourself. I could fly on FCP when I first started but when shops were cutting on Avid, that was the only option. I'd sometimes be working solo on shows from home and even after begging places to let me cut in FCP when I first started, many required Avid because they had established a bullet proof post production flow for online, or delivery, mixing and archiving once my project was finished.

I learned remedial Avid skills first, a little Premiere way back in 2000, then learned FCP, then learned some intermediate Avid skills (dabbled in Sony Vegas on and off for a year) and primarily was a die hard FCP editor the past decade - I absolutely loved FCP7. Now that I find myself at a crossroads of where to spend most of my time on the projects I have a platform choice on (Avid, FCPX, Premiere), I thought the decision would be tougher. Certainly it's good to be versed in several different platforms but I'd also argue that being able to bumble your way through a show on any editing platform will not serve you as well as being excellent in the most popular one for your market. It certainly seems like Avid is the clear future for the editing professional and feels like this horse race is now a one pony show (assuming Avid doesn't go bankrupt :) )

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts on this market shift. To be clear, the one person shop who has the freedom to setup any system they want couldn't be working at a better time with so many affordable choices. I'm specifically speaking to the freelance editors who work primarily in film / television / music / commercials and must typically work either on a client or post house machine or are required to work from home on a certain platform.

EDITOR
Features : Television : Commercial
http://www.BryanRobertsEditor.com


Return to posts index

Ryan McAfee
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 7, 2013 at 5:43:05 pm

I really enjoyed your post. It was very incite full. I personally have not heard that Adobe is going to a strict cloud based format (not saying that they aren't) but it kind of makes sense for them.

I hate the constant CS updates/upgrades (CS6/7/8/9), it is the same thing in the video game world, as in the use of downloadable content, when in all actuality that content is on the original disk and all you did was put in a code to use it. (Sorry if that did not make sense)

Adobe's creative cloud at least gives you the constant Adobe updates, so maybe they will just get to the point of saying Photoshop instead of Photoshop CSX12 v1.2 extended 3 and 1/2.

Avid is stable but there is a learning curve. Premiere and FCP seemed to me to be easier to navigate when teaching yourself how to use them.

My final thought. I think Adobe will remain competitive. And don't leave out Sony Vegas. I edit on Avid mostly. But I really enjoyed my brief time editing on Vegas. (A very straight forward system.)


Thank You.

Ryan McAfee
Moon Community Access Television
http://www.MCA-TV.com


Return to posts index

Bryan Roberts
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 7, 2013 at 11:34:46 pm

Yes, it's certainly happening. It was announced yesterday and covered quite well by all the big media outlets etc. - here's the Ars article from yesterday:

http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/05/adobes-creative-suite...

I used Vegas on and off for about a year in the mid 2000's. I didn't mention it because other than my own use, I've never heard it even mentioned in a conversation about editing with other professionals or other post houses in the past 8 years so I figure, it doesn't exactly have big inroads in the pro market :)

Adobe will certainly remain a competitive product but if I know post houses and edit facilities, they are really going to despise a subscription only based system with a required internet connection every so often, and I don't see Premiere being a competitive choice for many facilities. Photoshop is the gold standard for image editing and will always be around, forever and ever and ever.

Glad you enjoyed the post… perhaps others did not?

EDITOR
Features : Television : Commercial
http://www.BryanRobertsEditor.com


Return to posts index


Pat Horridge
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 8:10:27 am

My view is it was the smart move for Adobe.
The current cloud based pricing has to compete with customers comparing it with the box price and on-going updates.
The only solution to being able to up the subscription fees is to remove the boxed option.
And as a company the on-going revenue stream of subscription takes the pressure off of having to roll out significant updates to sell as new boxed upgrades.

Yes a lot of the bigger post houses will struggle with internet connected licensing requirements and companies like Avid have played it clever by continuing to support hardware dongles.

But that won't make much of a market difference. The Post world is but a very small cog in the ever growing media creation world.

Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
VET
Production Editing Digital Media Design DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
http://www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US


Return to posts index

Fred Gasc
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 10:55:50 am

In general, evolution+progress
Always tend to simplify, more efficiency, more integration, more universability, at less costs.

For the moment, we are still in a transitional period and it's the wild west.

Imo, the apps that will dominate the editing houses will be the ones that will be the less roundtripping dependancy at competitive cost.

Avid has a great card to play, but if they are not willing to dev DS anymore, they need to
Enhance MC where is the weakest. I'm thinking
Of CC for ex. Yes there is Resolve, but it really annoys me to have to roundtripp each time a CC is requiered Or reading Cinema dng etc...

There are very good news on the #7, but also
Irritating lacks.

The future is not to more apps but less apps,
One superapp that has it all.

If MC would have serious color capabilities, why not effects in nodes, it would just have no rivals, even at twice the cost. That is what Symphony should be, the new DS, and not just a One more cool enhanced version.

Avid May well rule again the editing world because the platform is rock solid, but they need to listen to the young generation.

Fred.


Return to posts index

Pat Horridge
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 11:16:08 am

I go the other way and say we're looking at a better world made up of small apps that do specific jobs very well. Supper apps are just too bloated and eventually just can't keep everything developed.
I prefer apps that do a task or a limited range of tasks well and then pass on the work to other apps as required.
collaborative sharing and working is the key not all locked in one.

My view on DS is that it needs to become an MC plugin.
All the things DS is good for can be extended out of MC.

So upgrade the MC color correction but made the symphony Option the DS feature set as a plugin.

Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
VET
Production Editing Digital Media Design DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
http://www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US


Return to posts index


Fred Gasc
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 2:04:06 pm

Pat, I got your point, but a myriad of fragmentated specialized apps is already what we have. And frankly, it has many many hassles within the roundtrippings.

Thank god we have people like M.Phillips who are working in the core of those metadatas crazyness and help gazillion of editors worldwide to solve issues that should not be issues.

The very bug problem of roundtripping, is the implementation. It's too easy to
Mess-up.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking Avid to be Nuke. But Resolve enters IMO on the basic a 21 century editing app should feature, and Avid engineers are perfectly capable to do something as good if not better.

I'm not against a roundtripping betwewn Avid and Resolve, but how? With a 2 months learning curve and desperate call for help to M.Phillips at the minimum datas issues? I don't call that modern World but a Holly mess.

I follow you on fragmentated apps, but not in the today's implementation where it involves brand agreements etc...and in the end, we, users, are the ones on bondage.

How many lost hours (and money)
Have Been already lost by editors
Only on solving roundtrippings
Between the non-sense current
Mess? Just look at this forum,
Ir the Red forum. Thousand and
Thousand of hours lost in not
Doing the job, not being creative
But just making those myriad apps
Working minimally together.

And wait...RAW video for everyone is just
On the corner, and if there is
Not an agreement on a standart,
You'll see the fun.



Fred.


Return to posts index

Pat Horridge
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 2:27:02 pm

Maybe we've just been lucky but we work with a wide range of apps and workflows and provide fast effective turnarounds.
We are constantly working on the best solutions and robust workflows but they almost always do exist and can be found.
The range of apps and tools allows us the scope to fine tune the experience clients get to suit their needs and budget.

It's not perfect and it could be better but it does work and it works really well.

The key thing for me is that a super app that has an limitation or issue but no sensible collaboration tools is a dead end.
Having a workflow that allows me to choose the apps and tools to solve each step of the problem is incredibly powerful and my preferred route.

Of course if one app does the job great but that's rare nowadays.

Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
VET
Production Editing Digital Media Design DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
http://www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US


Return to posts index

Fred Gasc
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 2:40:08 pm

But DS - MC already has a bigger potential as Smoke IMO.

Avid has the greatest stability if we feed it with what Avid wants.
And that's because it's Avid'house.

Is the current fragmented situation works fine? Well, it ends to work fine...after awhile.
That's the problem.

Just look at the forums. There are
Plagued with roundtripping problems, even for people who are experienced so it's not just
Wanabee issues.

Again; I'm following you, but then, the implementation is key.

I agree that there is no super app that works really well for all, but it's not a tech problem, it's a politic one. IMO.

Fred.


Return to posts index


Pat Horridge
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 8, 2013 at 2:50:29 pm

We don't work just Avid. It's what ever combination does what we need.
So we have Resolve, Legacy FCP (and Color) FCP-X, Media Composer, Symphony and DS and more, and we can round trip as required.

And it's rare to find VET staff posting for solutions. We spend more time posting answer to problems :-)

I get that others struggle but like all things that are worth doing it's not always easy or "unskilled" and skilled is knowing the solutions.

Yes your right it's not really a technical issue to solve it's about a free market and all the players having self interests. Always been like that and I can't see that changing.
Are we seeing rationalization of camera formats and storage formats or just about anything? No we're seeing more and more "solutions"

I can't see anything that can change that just people who work at getting the best from what there is.

Been like that for over 20 years in my experience.

Pat Horridge
Technical Director, Trainer, Avid Certified Instructor
VET
Production Editing Digital Media Design DVD
T +44 (0)20 7505 4701 | F +44 (0)20 7505 4800 | E pat@vet.co.uk |
http://www.vet.co.uk | Lux Building 2-4 Hoxton Square London N1 6US


Return to posts index

Bryan Roberts
Re: With Adobe forcing Creative Cloud and Apple tainting / reversing a decade of professional market FCP growth with FCPX, did the professional editing world just become an Avid one horse race?
on May 9, 2013 at 4:25:16 am

All great point guys - it sort of taps into my FCP7 nirvana as I had reached a point where it became my super app with no roundtripping for my editorial needs (cut, moderate effects, graphics, color correction, rough mix) and now that I find myself looking at separate tools, it breaks my creative flow and takes more time.

In terms of what production facilities want / need, I'd guess that they'll typically stay fairly loyal to one or two editing platforms only. Once you find something that really works quickly, efficiently and cost effectively, you dont want to change it hence why we all get up in arms when Avid / Apple / Adobe makes even the slightest shift in their interfaces or our workflows. A lot of times we dont want new features but rather old features to just work properly but that doesnt make for a sexy line item so we end up with a laundry list of stuff that gets added each version update. I dont see why any post houses would stray from avid at this point. With MC dropped to old FCP levels, cost isnt of a concern for the basic software to edit with.

Which leads me to the creative cloud thing - I dont think faster updates / affordability to always have the latest version, in terms of an editing app, is as big a benefit as is being touted. Again, we professional editors aren't hungry for the next big thing, we want our current stuff now to work properly and if it works well now, we want it faster. I could see the larger user base at a lower cost entry point (more consumers and prosumers having access to prevously cost prohibitive software) demanding more new additional features with each release.

EDITOR
Features : Television : Commercial
http://www.BryanRobertsEditor.com


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]