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MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?

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Ori Doron
MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 25, 2012 at 3:35:38 pm

Hello everybody, good to be here.

I'm having a project with multiply Frames Rates and Formats (you name it, we got it - we got too much from different cameras & youtube clips...). I want to understand if there is a special advantage in MC 6.5 regarding this process. There must be, its nearly 2013 right? [*-)]

I know from previous experience that I have in the bottom line 2 options:

1. Ama---> Transcode a good DNxHD and edit (is there an advantage to the trans code outside Avid?).

2. Pray the lord by opening a project to every frame rate footage I have, and than bring it to one universal project (a lot of headic).

Right?

Is there any chance for a better solution? Solution without transcoding in order to bring the footage, and in the other hand not to open special project to every got **** footage?

Does MC 6.5 can somehow just let me open the final project I to export with and deal the mix framerates and formats quietly?


If it matters my final output should be 720P 2550 (Still doesnt know).

Lots of thank you everyone.

Ori


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Michael Hancock
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 25, 2012 at 4:00:47 pm

I got a lot of mixed frame rates from different cameras, and here's how I handle it.

Make a project at the resolution and frame rate for each type you have. For example, if the project is EDIT_A_2012 and I have footage that's 720p60, 1080 23.976, and 1080 59.94 I make a project for each of those and I label them with the frame rate. So I'd have EDIT_A_2012 60p, EDIT_A_2012 23.976, and EDIT_A_2012 59.94. Bring in the footage that corresponds to each project and transcode or consolidate it to Avid media - your editing experience will be much better that way, especially if you have DSLR footage. This transcode/consolidate is what takes the longest, but it's worth it in the long run in my opinion.

Then I make a project that matches the resolution and frame rate the final deliverable will be - say 1080 59.94. I make a project just for that, or I just use the EDIT_A_2012 59.94 project. At the finder/explorer level copy all the bins from the other projects into the EDIT_A_2012 59.94 project. This takes about about 10 seconds. Open it, edit away. Avid handles the frame rate conversions and scaling of everything from this point on and does a pretty decent job of it. If it guesses wrong you can go into your motion adapters (Avid automatically applies these for mixed frame rates) and adjust the interpretation.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Michael Phillips
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 12:13:52 am

Nothing has really changed in v6.5 as it pertains to managing mixed frame rates, formats, and frame/field. the issue comes with the need or not to ever have to go back to the original sources for any reason whatsoever. With v6, a transcode basically blows away any relationship to the original sources whcih is to bad since v5.5 actually managed both frame rates in the bins and EDL - even when applying a motion effect to a clip that had a frame rate adjustment. So the two methods mentioned at the high level are the choices you have - transcode up front to a high quality DNxHD that now becomes you new master (back up as though it were your master) and continue from there, or make the multiple projects - but a transcode still kills the relationship back, but at least you know which clips came from where. If AMA directly in your master project, I would log custom columns as to original frame rate.

As far as doing it outside of MC - it is basically the same as doing it within Avid as whatever the resulting file is becomes your new master source. At this point it is a matter of quality if you feel you have an external app you feel can do a better job.

Michael


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Michael Hancock
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 12:32:04 am

[Michael Phillips] "make the multiple projects - but a transcode still kills the relationship back, but at least you know which clips came from where. If AMA directly in your master project, I would log custom columns as to original frame rate. "

If you AMA your footage in to a native frame frate project (24p footage in a 24p project) and transcode within that project, then copy the bin over you can relink it to the AMA footage at the end though, allowing you to work at an offline resolution. You just don't want to make a 23.976 project, copy that bin to a 29.97 project and transcode from there. I did it with Symphony v6 and it worked just fine (or I got really lucky).

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Michael Phillips
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 12:42:13 am

Yes, you are correct when transcoding in the native project first, open in new project and don't transcode again. I was referring to taking a 24fps clip transcode as 24fps in its original project, open it in a 25p project and for whatever reason, transcode again - you lose the links back. I need to check what happens when you render - is a render the same as a transcode? I rarely work in cross frame rates, so I my direct knowledge may be a bit rusty. But whenever you see that long pop-up warning dialog indicating these will not relink, that is the point where history is broken back to the original clips.

Michael


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Michael Hancock
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 12:51:44 am

[Michael Phillips] " I need to check what happens when you render - is a render the same as a transcode? I rarely work in cross frame rates, so I my direct knowledge may be a bit rusty. But whenever you see that long pop-up warning dialog indicating these will not relink, that is the point where history is broken back to the original clips. "

I don't think a render kills the link back to the original footage. The project I tested the whole mixed frame rate workflow on had a lot of renders. I just cleared them before I relinked to the AMA footage and I only had one file not relink properly between three different frame rates, and that was my fault. I used QTChange to add timecode to DSLR footage and two clips happened to have the same name and timecode and Avid relinked the wrong one.

As for the pop up dialogs - that's what prompted me to try building individual projects for all the footage. It's a little clumsy but it works. This is one area I'd really like to see Avid improve - bringing mixed frame rate material together in one project. And resolution independence. I really hope that comes in the next update, if it's even possible.

I'm jealous you don't work with mixed frame rates very often, though! Seems like it happens on more of my projects than not anymore.

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Michael Phillips
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 1:00:25 am

Thanks for the clarification, so the recommended workflow when the need to move back to original files is to create a matching project to start beforehand. It is a lot of work, and one would think (as the original poster hinted at) could/should be done with a direct AMA link if it knows what the original frame rate is... just do it in the background.

I work in scripted feature length world - all pretty managed to one frame rate, and if not, is taken care of before getting to the Media Composer! :)

Michael


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Michael Hancock
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 1:15:42 am

[Michael Phillips] "one would think (as the original poster hinted at) could/should be done with a direct AMA link if it knows what the original frame rate is... just do it in the background."

Agreed 100%. Another thing I'd like to see Avid implement is background transcode. Let me sort through the AMA footage and start logging/cutting/sorting while it transcodes in the background, then have it immediately relink everything to the transcoded media. Right now I have to use ALEs and the preview function in Finder to make comments while it transcodes.

It would also be great it if it could transcode a file and keep the file's native frame rate regardless of the frame rate of the project, or transcode to the project's frame rate while still being able to relink to the original file (without making multiple projects).

----------------
Michael Hancock
Editor


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Ori Doron
Re: MC 6.5 Advantages in dealing Mix Fp's and Formats?
on Nov 26, 2012 at 11:32:19 am

Thank you very much Hanckok & Philips. Your help was great! Especially the trans-code in the native project of it fp's project. Didn't know that.

Ori


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