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Best multi-channel audio workflow?

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Christopher Travis
Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 19, 2012 at 4:08:43 pm

Hello,

I'm relatively new to AVID and am trying to work out the best way to cut a show with 4 cameras and 8 audio channels.

putting to one side the issues with shooting and acquiring the footage/audio, I'm interested in any ways I can keep my timeline tidy while editing and not have 8-16 tracks of audio taking up my screen.

Is there a way I can nest the tracks into a stereo mix, cut that, then expand them all back out before sending it to the dubbing mixer? Maybe that's too much to ask, but anything that can help me achieve something similar would be really appreciated.


Thanks,
Chris


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John Pale
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 19, 2012 at 5:43:22 pm

No audio nesting.

You can make a stereo pair appear as a single track, though.


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Michael Phillips
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 20, 2012 at 2:00:38 am

Does the audio file only consist of 8 ISO tracks or is one of them already a mix of 7 ISOs? If the latter, then Media Composer's Autosync can use just the mix track as part of the process. I would autosync that to one of the cameras, then take the new .sync clip and group that and the other cameras as a group.

Michael


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Christopher Travis
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 20, 2012 at 3:32:57 pm

Forgive my ignorance but what is an ISO?


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Michael Phillips
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 20, 2012 at 3:41:23 pm

An ISO is a track that is ISOlated to a single mike, be it the boom, or a lav on a particular actor/subject. Typically you would have an ISO of the boom and a lav on each of the actors, depending on how many actors and such are in the scene. Most modern audio recorders will also let you take the sum of the ISO tracks and automatically create a mix track or tracks at the same time. So for an 8 track recorder you could have up to 7 ISO tracks with a single mix-down track (sum of the 7). In editorial, the mix track is synced to dailies and should the editor need a particular track, they can match back to the original BWF and grab it as needed.

It would be a great feature for Avid to provide this as a virtual mix when doing AutoSync, but there would be lots of steps involved to create one manually and preserve all the metadata from the original BWF file.

But perhaps your multitrack files already have a mix track. Ask the mixer or open a file in Sound Devices Wave Agent and see if there is any metadata in the track info provided by production audio.


Michael


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Christopher Travis
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 21, 2012 at 5:49:19 pm

This sounds promising. So is there a workflow that will allow me to do the offline edit with just the mix rack, and then pass the timeline, along with all the separate ISOs to the dubbing mixer, and have him easily relink back to whatever tracks he needs?


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Michael Phillips
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 21, 2012 at 6:14:07 pm

There is, if planned for ahead of time, but it starts with the production audio mixer doing the mix track on set, usually TRK1, then only selecting that track when doing AutoSync.

Michael


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Christian Hart
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 1:08:35 am

Hello Michael,
i'd like to piggy back on this thread and ask you (anyone!) to clarify if that's ok?
Just want to check that you mean "only selecting the mix-down track (say A1) while syncing" Then when creating my AAF using synced clips made in this way, is there an option to bring all audio tracks in again?
Or i guess when editing if i need to i could match frame back to the original multitrack audio if I need to use ISOs - Is that what you mean?

But actually, I like to edit with ISOs all the time - especially with features /films with lots of dialogue - during the syncing i remove any empty audio tracks (and the mixdown track) then autosync my clips - would you say there's a better way or any problems with this way in Avid?

All the best.


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Trevor Asquerthian
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Oct 21, 2012 at 7:01:55 pm

You could cut with the mix track but have the 8 iso tracks bundled as a 7.1 audio track along for the ride. This will make for easier editing.

You can't have multicam grouped clips with multichannel clips - so you may need to lay out your sequence before cutting.

Virtual Katy and Conformalyzer can conform the production mix back to the iso recordings, allegedly. Not sure how foolproof it is.



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Michael Phillips
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 1:26:16 am

The 7.1 would not work as it is a matter of choosing which ISO track to use, and not all of them all the time (voices played) when editing with a 7.1 clip.

Until there is a better multitrack container style editing for editing, the Sync with Mix track is sort of a 80/20 solution meaning:

1. Import BWF with all tracks (MIX+ISO)
2. Sync with MIX track only. This "assumes" that this will be good for most of the editing.
3. When you get to a need for one of the ISO because it works better, match frame twice - once to bring back the sync clip, then audio only match frame again in the source monitor will bring up the original 8 track BWF at that point to use the ISO as needed.


Not as ideal as a dedicated multitrack container where you could make the edit, then right-click to bring up the ISO track desired for that edit. Maybe in the future.


Michael


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Christian Hart
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 1:36:11 am

Thanks you guys - for features i'm more used to FCP (hence this confusion) and for TV docs (where i just bring in all the audio anyway) AVID.

I get that the 7.1 wouldn't work but I'm actually still not quite clear what the best option for syncing is if i want to edit with just the useful ISOs...

If it's not multicam - can i lay out my clips in a sequence, bring in all audio and remove the mixdown track & any empty ISOs, then make sub seqs & autosync?

Sorry if i'm being dense....


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Michael Phillips
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 2:08:20 am

So the two match=frame clicks won't ework to get to the ISO's at the edit point? How do you defined "useful" ISO's? Pro Tools can match back to any ISO track during the sound post process. Or do you need to have all ISO tracks while editing?

Michael


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Christian Hart
Re: Best multi-channel audio workflow?
on Sep 25, 2013 at 12:01:09 pm

Yes i'd like to have access to all the ISOs that are not either mixdowns, empty or duplicated and am hoping that by doing that at the syncing stage i won't be creating problems for myself.... (I do this in FCP and think it should be fine in MC - sorry - i'm probably being too cautious!)

I like to do this so i can tell if some edit i am doing is broadly going to work without the need for ADR or other excessive audio work. (Eg. busy dinner table scene with ISOs on each actor)


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