FORUMS: list search recent posts

Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF

COW Forums : Avid Media Composer

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
Enrique Sanchez
Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 8:29:27 pm

Hello there. Production is shooting Sony F800 and Canon 5Ds at 23.98 Drop Frame. I'm AMA linking the 5D and transcoding to DNxHD 115 so I can create XDCAM masters using Export to Device> XDCAM, but after the transcode the timecode of the 5D clips are changed to Non Drop Frame. If I try selecting a clip and going to Clip> Modify to change it back to DF, it doesn't change it.

Anyone encounter this timecode change issue? I need to create XDCAM masters from the 5D at 23.98 Drop Frame to match the Sony F800's. I'm then capturing them all into a 30i NTSC project for the offline.

Thanks!


Return to posts index

Job ter Burg
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 8:34:52 pm

AFAIK, there is no such thing as 23.976 DF. 23.976 has a TC24.


Return to posts index

Michael Phillips
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 8:58:56 pm

As Job says - there is no such thing as a 24fps TC with drop frame count. Are you using a Canon 5D that has timecode support? I would love to see one of those files, especially if it is declaring itself as drop frame...

Michael


Return to posts index


Enrique Sanchez
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 9:09:17 pm

Looks like I've been fooled by production. My post super said production was shooting with the new Canon 5D Mark III that has timecode support at 23.98 DF and Sony F800 23.98 at DF. Just verified the 5D quicktime in QT Player and it says it's in non-drop timecode, but the 59.94 clips I've also received are in drop frame. Well, no big deal I guess since I'm making XDCAM Masters of all the 5D conformed at 23.98 so I'll just make the tapes and they will be non-drop.

As far as the few Sony F800 XDCAMs I captured with the DF setting on the deck, should I re-capture at NDF or can I modify the TC in Avid and just make sure the deck says NDF when I online?

Next time, I'll make sure to trust my instincts... and tell production to stop sending false information. HAH


Return to posts index

Enrique Sanchez
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 9:01:04 pm

That's what I thought too, but production claims they are shooting everything at DF. Just checked AMA, 5D at 23.98 shot at non-drop frame, 59.94 shot at drop frame.

I just popped an XDCAM from the Sony F800 and the clips' timecode look like they're non-drop frame so now I'm really confused. I've been capturing these tapes with the switch on the deck set to DF since they said that's what they're shooting. This switch on the deck can be set to DF/NDF. Now, my concern is should I re-capture everything at non-drop frame or can I just modify all the clips timecodes in Avid and make sure the deck is set to non-drop when I upres the footage at the end?


Return to posts index

Michael Phillips
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 9:18:56 pm

As far as the Mark III - even with timecode, there is no drop frame standard for 24fps timecode. So don't believe anyone that says their footage has 24fps DF timecode.

As far as the tapes go, is there anywhere on the deck that indicated whether it is drop on non-drop on the source before being modified via switch? Are they shooting the F800 at 23.976? If so, rule #1 applies unless you got the deck set up to cross-convert to 1080i and then you would choose whether you wanted that to be drop or non-drop. Is that what is happening?


Michael


Return to posts index


Enrique Sanchez
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 9:41:40 pm

Michael, that's precisely what happened. I'm downconverting the 23.976 XDCAM to 1080i/5994 for capture in a 30i project. The DF/NDF was showing up and the false information that I believed caused me to switch it to DF and capture a few tapes that way.

Is the best thing to do re-capture with the switch on NDF?

A slightly related question, when I set the AJA sync generator box to 1080p/23.98 in a 23.98 project with a 23.98 tape in, I get the REF NON-STD error. If I switch it to 1080psf/23.98, it works fine. It was my understanding that the F800 shot 23.98, not 23.98psf. Am I just getting this other setting mixed up?


Return to posts index

Michael Phillips
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 10:33:06 pm

Whenever dealing with 24 frames source inside a 30 frame signal, it is best to go NDF as the "A" frame cadence remains constant should its need ever come into play.

Are you editing in a 23.976 project, or 29.97i (30i)? If all sources were shot at 23.976, you should edit at 23.976, then output as 59.94i when done for deliverables.

HD-SDI signal via VTR/decks are always PsF. It's only a means by which a progressive frame is transported as two 1/2 frames so it can take advantage of legacy infrastructure. But once in the NLE, the frame are all treat as progressive. So set it to PsF.

Michael


Return to posts index

Enrique Sanchez
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 10:39:33 pm

We're editing in 30i NTSC and following a workflow that another show does for the same network. You helped me in another thread yesterday about capturing 23.98 XDCAMs with pulldown.

Thank you for all the help, I guess I'll be re-capturing those tapes now.


Return to posts index



Michael Phillips
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 10:42:37 pm

OK - so the "A" frame cadence tracking may come in handy downstream. Are you in a matchback project? If I remember correctly, you mentioned the HD was going to be recaptured at 23.976?

Michael


Return to posts index

Enrique Sanchez
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 11:15:32 pm

Yes all sources will come from 23.976 XDCAM tapes. Offlined at 30i, upresed to DNxHD so the tapes will be batch captured after picture lock.

Is the Matchback option required? I thought it was only for true film sources to get the key number tracked and everything.


Return to posts index

Michael Phillips
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 11:41:00 pm

If you are indeed going to recapture at 23.976 for HD conform, then you would be much better served working at NTSC 23.976 or 1080/23.976 at DNxHD 36. Editing 24 frame sources at 30 is subject to +/- 1 frame adjustments at edit points, not to mention composition, tracking and such are much better done on the original frames without the extra frames inserted.

Matchback is not only for KeyKode, but tracks the pulldown cadence correctly for the A, B, X (second B), C and D frames. This will assure that the adjustments stay at one frame - rather than 2-3 if not done tracked correctly.

Michael


Return to posts index


Enrique Sanchez
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 6, 2012 at 11:49:16 pm

That was my initial suggestion, but then the second day of post they decided they want to follow the workflow that another show is doing that seems to work well for them which is shoot at 23.98, capture with pulldown being added by the Sony F1600 deck, edit at 30i at 10:1m, upres to DNxHD 145 (I believe) for 1080i/5994 delivery. I can't really change the workflow planned since the footage needs to be seen on Monday.

If I've already captured footage in a regular project, can I still create a new project with matchback and move the bins or do I have to re-capture again? I hope not, I really don't have time for it..


Return to posts index

Michael Phillips
Re: Transcoding 23.98 from AMA is changing DF to NDF
on Oct 7, 2012 at 12:07:57 am

You can, but I wouldn't worry about at this stage.

Michael


Return to posts index

<< PREVIOUS   •   VIEW ALL   •   PRINT   •   NEXT >>
© 2017 CreativeCOW.net All Rights Reserved
[TOP]