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DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll

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Daniel Frome
DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 3:32:24 pm

Oh great and knowledge savvy creativecow,

I have searched far and wide with conflicting reports about whether this simple truth is indeed, truth:

I have DVCproHD tape containing 1080/24PA footage. Can I ingest this via firewire at 23.98 into MC 5.5 or 6?


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John Pale
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 4:14:02 pm

I seem to remember doing this a long time ago. The pulldown controls magically appear in the capture tool when you have the deck connected via FireWire and you are In a 23.98 project. It may even need to be a Film project, as the Film and 24p Settings only appear in your Settings when in a film project...but try a regular project first.

advanced pulldown is not something I normally deal with. sorry of my memory is faulty on this. It's easy enough to check though. If you don't own Avid already, just download the trial. It's fully functional.


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Daniel Frome
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 4:19:28 pm

[John Pale] "I seem to remember doing this a long time ago. The pulldown controls magically appear in the capture tool when you have the deck connected via FireWire and you are In a 23.98 project. It may even need to be a Film project, as the Film and 24p Settings only appear in your Settings when in a film project...but try a regular project first.

advanced pulldown is not something I normally deal with. sorry of my memory is faulty on this. It's easy enough to check though. If you don't own Avid already, just download the trial. It's fully functional."


Hi John,
When in a 23.98 project, Avid will not allow me to capture from my deck. Resolution is "incompatible format" and a warning appears saying that I cannot capture using 24 I/O. Perhaps there is a specific combination of selecting a film project, etc. I'll do some more tinkering but it seems to be impossible to connect via firewire in a 23.98 project.


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Richard Sanchez
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 5:23:58 pm

Just for the sake of asking, are you positive they shot at 1080 24p and not at 720? I've worked my share of shows were cameramen were totally sure they shot at the correction frame rate and resolution, when in fact they didn't. If it's consistently 720p, that's less of an issue but if you have one cam at 720 and another at 1080, well that just a mess but one thing at a time. I would try changing your project to 720 just to try it out.

Richard Sanchez
Los Angeles, CA

"We are the facilitators of our own creative evolution." - Bill Hicks


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Daniel Frome
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 5:52:54 pm

So far the crew hasn't shot 1080/24PA, but only 1080/24P. I can confirm is it indeed 1080/24P due to the fact that I can capture via firewire and confirm the settings.

The issue is that 1080/24P, captured through firewire, results in a 1080i/59.94 file technically, because that's what the tape format is. The bin with these 1080i/59.94 master clips can be opened in a 23.98 project, and when the "Field Motion" tab is set to "2:3 Film" the master clips play back as if they were 23.98 and all looks well.

That's usually where my story would end I would be happy. However, we are trying to sync up these shots to other footage that is ingested at "real" 23.98fps, opposed to these master clips which, even though they look like 23.98fps, are technically still 1080i/59.94 as far as Avid is concerned. And mixing framerates for multi-cam functionality is No No...

Therefore my hope is that if we shoot 1080/24PA and capture through firewire, Avid will junk those extra frames on-the-fly and give us real 23.98 clips. Wishful thinking maybe...


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John Pale
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 6:17:49 pm

How about this. Capture a clip at 29.97. Open the clip in a 23.98 project. Avid should put a motion adapter on in the timeline. If its not properly removing the pulldown open the Motion Effect Editor and promote it (if necessary) then see if there are controls to change the pulldown cadence.


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Daniel Frome
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 6:29:45 pm

[John Pale] "How about this. Capture a clip at 29.97. Open the clip in a 23.98 project. Avid should put a motion adapter on in the timeline. If its not properly removing the pulldown open the Motion Effect Editor and promote it (if necessary) then see if there are controls to change the pulldown cadence.
"


Hi John - see my post just above this. It's essentially the exact same thing as what you're proposal. It works perfect with 1080/24P material, and therefore I figure it'll probably work on 1080/24PA too. The issue is that these master clips are still 29.97, and will not engage in multi-cam syncing operations with other 23.98 sister cams (EX3, and other cameras that can be ingested at native 23.98).

Basically I am fighting the fact that Avid stubbornly clings onto the 29.97 timebase of these master clips, even though it's being treated as 23.98 all the way through.


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Job ter Burg
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 9:34:53 pm

Even after changing the Field Motion for these clips in the bin? What if you subsequently consolidate or transcode these clips in the 23.976 project? I reckon that forces the media to be 23.976.


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Michael Phillips
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 22, 2012 at 9:55:26 pm

I believe the pulldown removal (advanced and normal) as well as variable frame rate flag capture only works while in a 720p.23.976 project over FireWire. This can be done in either a film or video project type.

Pulldown removal was never implemented for 1080 format over FireWire or SDI.

Michael

Michael Phillips


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Daniel Frome
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 23, 2012 at 1:03:55 pm

In case anyone ever comes across this issue, I wanted to report the final findings here.

When shooting DVCproHD tape at 1080/24P OR 1080/24PA mode:

- capturing via firewire will always result in clips that retain the 1080i/59.94 properties of the tape. You can, however, set the "Field Motion" tab to "2:3 Film" for every master clip, and then open the bin in a 23.98 project. You will be able to play back your footage as if it was 23.98. If you do not need to multi-clip with other real 23.98 material, this should be satisfactory. Side note: if you transcode this footage it will become real 23.98, but it will break any ability to batch import or relink to the original captured file in the future. Consolidating is OK though - clips will retain their 1080i/59.94 properties even if doing so from within a 23.98 project.

- Using an AJ1400 deck - Avid was able to capture (via SDI) a real 23.98 signal. It appears that the deck is able to remove the pulldown (advanced or not) and deliver a real 23.98 stream over SDI, which Avid captures into DNxHD.

So, there's your two options.


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John Pale
Re: DVCproHD 1080/24PA, over firewire, into Avid... drum roll
on Feb 23, 2012 at 4:09:16 pm

Thanks for the update. Really good to have this info out there. I think the last time I had to deal with it , it was 720 footage, so it wasnt as painful.


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