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Fast Import ProRes - How?

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Alex Elkins
Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 4:40:20 pm

I'm a long-time FCP user but completely new to Avid, save for a fair bit of testing and Avid tutorials. I'm about to begin a simple (but real) project in Avid MC6.

I have 1920x1080/25p ProRes (non HQ) QuickTime media that I want to re-wrap to MXF.
As far as I can tell, all I should have to do is change the settings in the Media Creation tool to ProRes MXF, then import the file. Avid should then tell me that it is Fast Importing, as opposed to simply Importing or Transcoding. Is this correct?

If not, what should I be doing?

If it is correct then I'm in need of help, as whenever I import with the above settings, it doesn't Fast Import - a 40second QuickTime file takes about 90 seconds to import - that doesn't sound like a 'Fast Import' to me.

Where could I being going wrong?


Thanks in advance

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
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Andrew McKee
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 4:46:32 pm

2 things to try.

1) Set media creation to match your source and in the import settings set the colour space to 601/709 (otherwise avid assumes it must convert the files from RGB and does not do a fast import)

2) AMA the files in and then consolidate them to a media drive.

Both should be equal the speed, although the AMA option may give better results (i havent tested this but it does in other scenarios).

Andrew McKee
Editor/Colourist
Avid Certified Instructor - MC5.5
Apple Certified Trainer - FCP7
Pixelwizard.net


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Alex Elkins
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 5:00:55 pm

Hi Andrew,

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

From what I can tell I'm already importing using the settings you describe, but just in case I've taken a couple of screenshots so you can see what I'm doing...

My Media Creation settings (I've also clicked on 'Apply to all')


Then I go to File > Import, using these settings:


This is what MC6 does when I click 'Import'



Does all of that look right?

I'll try the Consolidate method now and post my results...


Thanks

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View Post Blue showreel
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film
My Vimeo Pro page


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Alex Elkins
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 5:07:46 pm

Hi Andrew,

I've just tried the Consolidate method you suggest and no matter what settings I use, Avid is skipping the file (even though I have unchecked the 'Skip files' checkbox.)
It's giving me an error message saying that the video contains foreign compression types. It appears that my Avid is racist as well as tempremental!

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View Post Blue showreel
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film
My Vimeo Pro page


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Andrew McKee
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 5:35:59 pm

How strange. I do not have MC6 installed on my personal computer as yet but will do some testing when I am next at work. Hopefully someone else will come up with an answer before then. What is the origin of the media?

Andrew McKee
Editor/Colourist
Avid Certified Instructor - MC5.5
Apple Certified Trainer - FCP7
Pixelwizard.net


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Alex Elkins
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 5:47:23 pm

The media is actually an animation from After Effects, rendered out as ProRes, so perhaps that's the difference.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View Post Blue showreel
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film
My Vimeo Pro page


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Nathan Grout
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 10:12:20 pm

I just successfully did a fast import of ProRes 422 (not HQ) with the exact import settings from your screen shot. The ProRes MOV files were created in After Effects CS 4 and were 1080p at 23.976 fps, the same settings as my Avid project.

The only thing I can think to suggest is that you double check that the frame size and frame rates of your MOV and Avid project match (including any interlacing that might have been applied to your AE render).


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Oliver Peters
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 13, 2012 at 11:25:25 pm

[Nathan Grout] "The only thing I can think to suggest is that you double check that the frame size and frame rates of your MOV and Avid project match (including any interlacing that might have been applied to your AE render)."

Correct. If the frame rates do not match you will not get Fast Import. In addition, the gamma will be incorrect because you are going through a QT decode/Avid re-encode when it isn't a Fast Import.

- Oliver

Oliver Peters Post Production Services, LLC
Orlando, FL
http://www.oliverpeters.com


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Alex Elkins
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 14, 2012 at 11:39:46 am

I'll double-check that my project settings all match the QuickTime when I'm back in the suite on Monday. I'm pretty certain they do, as I wouldn't have any reason to begin the project as anything other than 1080/25.

Thanks to everyone for your help on this. Will keep everyone posted.

Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View Post Blue showreel
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film
My Vimeo Pro page


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Alex Elkins
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 18, 2012 at 3:01:52 pm

I've just had a chance to revisit this and really can't see what I'm doing wrong. Frame size, frame rate and interlacing all match up.

However, I am accepting that it may well be a user error here. I tried the same process in a different project (SD PAL) and the fast import worked fine.

Here is a screenshot showing my project settings, which I believe matches my QuickTime:


I also let Avid do a 'slow' import to see how the settings differed compared to when I AMA linked the ProRes file and noticed that the settings appear different:


Alex Elkins
Twitter: @postbluetv
http://www.postblue.tv
View Post Blue showreel
Shot on RED @ 100fps, Post on FCP/Color: Capoeira Film
My Vimeo Pro page


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Hector berrebi
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 18, 2012 at 8:30:36 pm

media creation settings, all set to ProRes MXF?
how about import settings? can you post a screen shot?

also, how did you make your ProRes? maybe throw it in FCP7 and look and the columns for info...
alpha? interlacing?

did you try in a fresh project? or the same file on a different system?

hector

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Hector berrebi
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 14, 2012 at 5:04:36 am

things might have changed on this one... for example i couldn't find the help page for fast import
which i do remember seeing before.


the way I remember it was, that you can only fast import Avid codecs
ProRes isn't one, and this option shouldn't work.

from the avid website:
(look under the codec box)
http://avid.custkb.com/avid/app/selfservice/search.jsp?DocId=271233

unless of course it changed,
or i remember it wrong (i don't think so...)

not sure AMA and consolidate should work either, but i may be wrong on this one, i'll test it tomorrow.

and if anyone finds the help page on fast importing... please let me know what you entered in search

thanks

hector

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Nathan Grout
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 14, 2012 at 5:36:41 am

In short, it has changed.

As I mentioned in my previous post, I have successfully done a fast import of ProRes footage in Avid 6 on my Mac. If you go to http://www.avid.com/US/products/media-composer, you'll see that at the top of the second column of new features it says, "Get full native ProRes support on Mac (encode and decode) and Windows (decode only) for easy integration into any ProRes workflow." It simply isn't packaged with the Avid codecs, just as XDCAM and other supported codecs aren't packaged with Avid's codecs.

As I mentioned, I'm on a Mac, but since Windows machines can decode ProRes, and no encoding should be needed for a fast import, it should still work.

Mac Pro (Mid 2010) - 3.33 GHz 6-Core Intel Xeon Processor - 10 GB 1333 MHz RAM - ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB Video Card - OS X Lion 10.7.2 - Avid Media Composer 6.0 - Adobe Production Premium Suite CS4 - Final Cut Studio 3.0


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Hector berrebi
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 14, 2012 at 11:45:17 am

"Get full native ProRes support..." does not mean fast import, (you can't fast import XDCAM or DVCproHD)

however, you are right. it has changed and i was able to fast import a ProRes HQ file into MC6.

this is quite cool :)

and should definitely be properly documented by Avid, as it isn't right now

also, like i suspected, it seems impossible to consolidate AMA linked ProRes

hector

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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Andrew McKee
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 16, 2012 at 12:02:51 am

You can't fast import XDCAM or DVCProHD because you don't import them at all. You can AMA and then consolidate which will just rewrap as MXF in the native codec.

The ProRes handling was in the Whats New document when I beta tested MC6. But yes, they should be promoting it better.

Andrew McKee
Editor/Colourist
Avid Certified Instructor - MC5.5
Apple Certified Trainer - FCPX
Pixelwizard.net


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Hector berrebi
Re: Fast Import ProRes - How?
on Jan 16, 2012 at 7:05:33 am

[Andrew McKee] "You can't fast import XDCAM or DVCProHD because you don't import them at all. You can AMA and then consolidate which will just rewrap as MXF in the native codec.
"


i know :)

i just mentioned them as an example, mainly because of how surprised i was.

documentation still states that only Avid codes can do fast import

Hector Berrebi
prePost Consulting


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