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HD Artifacts from Kona 3

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HD Artifacts from Kona 3
on Mar 3, 2007 at 8:04:31 pm

2.5 Quad, 4Gb RAM, QT 7.1.3, FCP 5.1.2, SATA E4P, 2Tb ext array.

This may not be exactly within the FCP forum topic but it does involve FCP so I thought others might want to know what I've found and what I'm still dealing with.....

Project is DVCPROHD/60i. Footage shot entirely with Z1u/60i. Footage went into system via camera as deck through Miranda HDBridge ->out HDSDI ->into HDSDI on Kona Kbox. Everything went in fine. Now, since I've added my client monitor I've noticed a thing or two.

The monitor is a 42" Sceptre LCD panel that supports HDMI, but most importantly....runs at 1920x1080, will even do 1080p.

I'm able to push HDSDI signal out the Kbox, into an AJA HDP box which converts to DVI-D. From there, I have a DVI-D to HDMI cable which runs into the media box on the Sceptre. The media box on this monitor is a separate piece of hardware which is nice because it keeps things tidy. The media box also accepts component HD.

Here's the rub....

Component HD displays fine. The monitor has a slight blue cast to its whites which I have yet to adjust to my liking.

HDMI display is when things get weird. I am getting some type of color artifacting which display in any area of the picture. Doesn't matter if its darks, whites, mids....its random. See link... look for the red on the lower left, plus some in the upper right of the image. It's not limited to red noise, I'm also getting blue mixed in, and just recently found some small hints of green noise. The picture link features mostly red.

http://www.hdcut.com/MonitorTest.jpg

What's I've found out so far....

For any of you with Kona 3's.... when you click out of FCP or go to Audio/Video settings...the Kona will display either bars, test patterns, or whatever you've set the card to generate (via the control panel). I have mine set to bars (100% bars). When I get these bars... the noise is gone. When I click to the Aud/Vid settings in FCP, the noise is gone. But, when I use bars that are either from a captured tape, or generated from the bars/tone generator... then noise appears in the white bar (far left). Weird huh?!!

I've tested other captured 1080i footage, from other projects.... it does the same thing. I even imported a still 1080i frame from some stock footage site...did the same noise.

Since the bars generated by the Kona are traveling through HDSDI, thru HDP box, DVI-D, and finally HDMI... that tells me that the HDSDI signal "might" be clean. I'm using new cables throughout (for what that's worth).

WHY... then should my footage (captured or imported) be any different from a signal generated by the Kona card? Isn't it all the same??

I have contacted my guy at Aja but have yet to hear back from him so I thought I'd see if anyone else has dealt with this enigma before.

SD mode = fine
Component HD = fine
HDMI = UGH!

I'm very open to any comments / insight.

Thanks.

Damon
__________________
//Editor/Storyteller/Nerd//



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Bob Zelin
Re: HD Artifacts from Kona 3
on Mar 3, 2007 at 11:28:30 pm

If the component HD displays fine, then why go thru any further aggrivation with the HDP and DVI to HDMI cable ?

If your Septre 42" LCD has analog component HD inputs - you are done - use your K3 box out Y Pb Pr to look at your image.

I don't know the exact answer to your question, but if you one a DVI monitor (like an Apple Cinema display or HP or Dell), stick the HDP directly into this DVI monitor (just for this test) to see what the image looks like. If it's clean, and your DVI-HDMI cable and 42" monitor is introducing noise - no one here will probably be able to give you an answer.

Bob Zelin


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InsertEdit
Re: HD Artifacts from Kona 3
on Mar 4, 2007 at 2:37:49 am

I have a couple Dell 2405FPWs so I'll try that.... good idea. Another FCP editor friend using a Kona 2 has the HDP setup on his Barco 42" and it's gorgeous. Of course, we're talking apples & oranges since the Barco is a good $6k over what the Sceptre sells for. Either way, best case would be to stay HDSDI but "I ain't got the money for an Ecinema display just yet".

Component HD is fine and dandy but the HDP is a proven method to getting a better signal (except in my case).

The mystery is why the Kona's bars don't give the noise and why any media through the Kona does. I expect to get this answered and will post my findings for those interested as soon as I talk to Aja next week.

Thanks.



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walter biscardi
Re: HD Artifacts from Kona 3
on Mar 4, 2007 at 12:08:00 pm

[InsertEdit] "Either way, best case would be to stay HDSDI but "I ain't got the money for an Ecinema display just yet"."

Get the Panasonic 1700W or 2600W then

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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walter biscardi
Re: HD Artifacts from Kona 3
on Mar 4, 2007 at 12:10:45 pm

[InsertEdit] "The mystery is why the Kona's bars don't give the noise and why any media through the Kona does. I expect to get this answered and will post my findings for those interested as soon as I talk to Aja next week."

Noise or compression? You shot with the Sony Z1 which is HDV so you've got a LOT of compression in your image. You're going to see compression artifacts all over the place from the original images, especially in dark areas and large areas of solid color. I'm cutting a documentary episode right now that was shot with the Z1, converted to DVCPro HD on the way in and about 70% of the shots are just stunningly gorgeous while the other 30% are pretty noisy, but all of them have compression artifacts all over the screen. The shots that are well light do not show nearly as many as the dark shots.

The bars don't have the compression.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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walter biscardi
Re: HD Artifacts from Kona 3
on Mar 4, 2007 at 2:29:12 am

[InsertEdit] "Since the bars generated by the Kona are traveling through HDSDI, thru HDP box, DVI-D, and finally HDMI... that tells me that the HDSDI signal "might" be clean. I'm using new cables throughout (for what that's worth)."

So you're converting the signal twice before it gets to the monitor? I would never do that. I monitor all my signals either SDI or Component straight out of the Kona 3. If you're converting THAT signal to others, then you're asking for trouble.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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