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raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC

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Elliott L
raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC
on Feb 16, 2007 at 6:19:24 pm

I have just gotten an LS pci card to use in my dual 2.7 pci G5. I need to transfer HI-8 tapes to uncompressed digital signal. I have a Sony 9850 Hi-8 deck. 1. How many ESATA 2 external drives do I need to use in Raid array to capture and playback this stream? 2. I am not doing this for broadcast and wish to have timecode at 30fps, so one video frame is assigned to each time code frame. 3. Any suggestions for eliminting chroma noise from the tapes? 4. Is there a better transfer deck to use. I want to keep top visual quality


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Bob Zelin
Re: raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC
on Feb 16, 2007 at 11:26:41 pm

The answer is based on the compression ratio you wish to work at.
The quick answer is that you only need TWO eSATA drives, striped RAID 0, to
safely do 8 and 10 bit uncompressed SDI, DVCPro50, or even DVCProHD. I have clients that are actually using only ONE eSATA drive to do all of the above, but I would not recommend it.

With that said, if you have tons of Hi 8 tapes, with countless hours of footage that you must digitize, a good value is one of the "port multipler"
SATA chassis on the market, that contain 5 eSATA drives. But you don't need 5 drives just to digitize and play back uncompressed SD video, if you just have a few tapes.

Bob Zelin


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FCP Pro Video VAR
Re: raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC
on Feb 17, 2007 at 2:08:50 am

Eliot it may be better to get a SCSI or Fibre channel hardware based array for bandwidth and security. E sata drives and IDE drives fail more than SCSI and Fibrechannel so any system you consider should have a hardware raid controller and a parity drive. raid 0 is only for bandwidth and offers no redundancy. Thats why so many of the non raided ( JBOD ) solutions are so cheap.


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Elliott L
Re: raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC
on Feb 17, 2007 at 3:47:37 am

Thanks very much. At the moment, money is an issue. The material I am transferring is on tape tobegin with, so security is not the utmost concern, but I will certainly keep what you say in mind. Although, in any case, I can't see how I would ever be able to store all my data on the drives permanently. I have several hundred hours of material. But in a few years drives that size may well be affordable. I was under the impression that the new eSATA drives are very reliable?


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FCP Pro Video VAR
Re: raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC
on Feb 17, 2007 at 12:49:30 pm

The new drives are no better than the ide drives that have been made for years. They are based on the same mechanisims with a newer interface but they are still the less expensive drives when compared to SCSI and Fiberchannel. I have many customers with raided systems and have not had a loss of data yet but there have been many drive failures and even hiccups that the systems will not be effected by. By the way the standard array I use has between 5-16 drives with a hardware controller and either a SCSI or FC HBA. Most are capable and used for uncompressed HD. After speaking with the tech people at many manufacturers including AJA the answer is the esata drives work in limited applications but they are not holding throughput as the fill up and they have been known to be problematic. If you save money and it doesn't work how much did you save?


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Bob Zelin
Re: raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, 30 fps TC
on Feb 17, 2007 at 2:56:12 pm

Elliot -
the gentlemen from FCP Pro Video VAR does not know what he is talking about. His information is simply incorrect.

I have been using SATA and eSATA drives since April 2005, and I have almost NEVER seen a failure with these drives. In contrast, I have been using SCSI drives since day 1 of AVID, as well as Fibre Channel, and have seen countless failures. Simply observe companies like HUGE Systems (which became Ciprico from lack of sales), Medea(which became AVID from lack of Sales), Rorke Data (who was a big SCSI distributor), and StorCase (now out of business) - all leaders in older technology.

Modern products - EVEN SCSI or Fibre interface products, use ATA or SATA or eSATA drives. This includes Apple (the XServe RAID uses ATA), Medea, Ciprico, RAID Inc, AVID Unity ISIS, and Facilis Terrablock (which is fibre interface that uses eSATA). SATA is very very reliable, and almost never fails. It is also dramatically less expensive than equivalent SCSI drives.

Many resellers do not like products like Cal-Digit or Sonnet, becuase there is not enough profit margin to gain from promoting these products. You see the same thing with AVID dealers who say that FCP sucks and will never be as good as AVID systems.

Most AVID systems historically used NON RAIDED SCSI drives, and this has been the backbone of the television industry for the last 15 years. RAID 3 and RAID 5 is teriffic - and it is available from manufacturers like Medea, AVID, Ciprico, and RAID Inc - it just costs more money - and you aint' getting SCSI drives or Fibre drives in most of these drive enclosures anyway.

There are alternate solutions that are emerging. ATTO Technologies has released a SAS host card that can interface to 8 SATA drives, that offers RAID 5. Highpoint Technology also offers a SATA RAID 5 solution. But to my knowlege, these are not "elegant" solutions, that are simple plug and play, that do an auto rebuild, without user interaction (like the Medea and Ciprico). Don't worry - NAB is coming, and there will be new cool stuff out there for you.

In the mean time, SATA is just fine and dandy for your application, and is SUPER reliable. Forget your VALUE ADDED RESELLER - get a nice Cal Digit from one of their recommended resellers, or any SATA product from a mail order place, and you will plug it in, and it will work for you - reliably.

PS - I am NOT anti Hitachi, or Seagate (the manufacuters of SCSI and Fibre drives) as these are the SAME companies that make the SATA drives.

Bob Zelin





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Bob Zelin
Re: raid storage for hi-8, chroma noise, - an example
on Feb 17, 2007 at 3:10:15 pm

Hi Elliot
below is a link of a very nice product -

http://www.raidinc.com/pdf/products/ORION_U320DS_WEB.pdf

This is a SCSI interface product that offers RAID protection, but uses SATA drives as the core storage product. I am not saying you should use this product, but it demonstrates that modern drive arrays use SATA drives, and not SCSI or Fibre channel drives.

Bob Zelin


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