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Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD

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Saddler
Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 1:06:56 am

I'm planning out what upgrades I need to make in the next year and a half. Right now I'm running a Kona 2 off of a dual 2.7 G5. I've been very happy with this setup, but the dual 2.7 really crawls along on my projects which often use half a dozen to a dozen different 55mm plugins on a single clip in a multi-track DVCPRO HD timeline. I also don't usually have the time to re-render footage for my edits before importing, so I'll have DV or 8bit SD footage mixed with DVCPRO HD @ 60hz, on a timeline that's DVCPRO HD @ 24hz with maybe 60% of the footage being native.

So, I have a couple of questions about the Kona boards:

- Both the Kona 2 and the Kona 3 have DVCPRO HD hardware acceleration. Is the Kona 3's any faster? 90% of my edits are DVCPRO HD so this would be a major bonus for me. I also would like to know if the PCI-E and other improvements on the Kona 3 make a noticeable increase in speed on similarly configured systems.

- The Kona 3 can uprezz 720p to 1080p on the fly for output to the studio monitor, correct? Does this slow the card down any, or is there a dedicated chip for this?

- What does the LH lack over the 3? Will it work with the breakout box for my rack? Does it have hardware acceleration for DVCPRO HD?

- Any guesses when the Kona 4 will be released?

Thanks!


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 2:00:39 am

[Saddler] "Both the Kona 2 and the Kona 3 have DVCPRO HD hardware acceleration. Is the Kona 3's any faster?"
there is no additional acceleration on the K3 over the K2.- But the Newer intel machines are much faster-

"The Kona 3 can uprezz 720p to 1080p on the fly for output to the studio monitor, correct? Does this slow the card down any, or is there a dedicated chip for this?"
It does this in Real Time, and you are correct that it is hardware based - not done is software.

[Saddler] "hat does the LH lack over the 3? Will it work with the breakout box for my rack? Does it have hardware acceleration for DVCPRO HD?"

The LH does not do any up conversion or cross conversion, and neither will work with your existing breakout box.

gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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Bob Zelin
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 2:21:06 am

To answer your question "any guesses when the Kona 4 will be released". I bet you that when the Kona 4 gets released, it will be on another MAC platform, and so everything you own will be obsolete.

Happy now ? Don't try to plan 2 years ahead. You have observed the demise of the (wonderful) dual 2.7 to the Quad, and now the first generation Mac Pro in a VERY short period of time. Do you think it's over ?
It hasn't yet begun. The Kona 2 is a teriffic product, and as you have been told, the Kona 3 will upconvert - but the Kona 3 is for the PCI-Express MAC's, and the Kona 2 is for the PCI-X Macs. If history repeats itself, AJA will CONTINUE to give us FREE upgrades for the Kona 3, as long as Apple keeps the PCI-Express buss going. But do you really think that the Mac Pro will be a viable computer in 2009 ? (Plenty of people are still on AVID systems with MAC G4's and Meridian card sets, and still make money).

Bob Zelin


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David Smith
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 3:31:10 am

[Bob Zelin] "(Plenty of people are still on AVID systems with MAC G4's and Meridian card sets, and still make money). "

Amen to that, Bob. Heck our second station is a PPC 9500 running an old Media 100 and a Effeto/Pronto compositing board! I wish all of my investments could make money for as long as that old workhorse.


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gary adcock
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 4:00:58 am

[David Smith] "Heck our second station is a PPC 9500 running an old Media 100 and a Effeto/Pronto compositing board!"

David
shoot that old dying horse and put it out of its misery


gary adcock
Studio37
HD & Film Consultation
Post and Production Workflows


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weevie833
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 3:41:20 pm

Bob is right. Look as far down as the next year and think how the increased capability will either make you more money for its greater breadth of services you can provide to your clients, or look at it for how much LESS work you need to do to accomplish the same final product [meaning, how will this product allow me to go home at 2 a.m. versus 4 a.m.]. If that analysis amounts to a break-even point or better over one year or less [or whatever terms you want gauge it by according to upgrade cycles mentioned by Bob], then go for the upgrade. If not, don't. I made the mistake of buying a used HDCam deck for cash -- $69,000 -- thinking that was where my clients would be going. Wrong. Over 1 1/2 years, we used it maybe 4 times. We sold it for a $20,000+ loss, and were lucky we got what we got! As for the old equipment, I too have an old Avid Meridien on a 933 PPC G4 and it's as solid as a rock. I used it 3 times last year, but only for offline. Still makes me money though and the clients don't care. The picture still appears on their monitor! steve covello double wide post


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 3:46:25 pm

[weevie833] "I made the mistake of buying a used HDCam deck for cash -- $69,000 -- thinking that was where my clients would be going. Wrong."

I was fortunate to make the right call of purchasing a Panasonic 1200A DVCPro HD deck. That launched us into HD and HD broadcast in a big way. We rent HDCAM when necessary to output.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 3:51:51 pm

[Saddler] "- Both the Kona 2 and the Kona 3 have DVCPRO HD hardware acceleration. Is the Kona 3's any faster? 90% of my edits are DVCPRO HD so this would be a major bonus for me. I also would like to know if the PCI-E and other improvements on the Kona 3 make a noticeable increase in speed on similarly configured systems."

Kona 2 is limited by the end of the line G5. Kona 3 will work faster because it's going to be in faster machines.



[Saddler] "- The Kona 3 can uprezz 720p to 1080p on the fly for output to the studio monitor, correct? Does this slow the card down any, or is there a dedicated chip for this?"

Nope, no slow down. Realtime. And it's a cross convert. You can to the conversion during capture or playback in realtime.



[Saddler] "- What does the LH lack over the 3? Will it work with the breakout box for my rack? Does it have hardware acceleration for DVCPRO HD?"

Upconvert and Cross Convert.


[Saddler] "- Any guesses when the Kona 4 will be released?"

According to my sources, they have no idea.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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walter biscardi
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 3:52:53 pm

[walter biscardi] "[Saddler] "- Any guesses when the Kona 4 will be released?"

According to my sources, they have no idea."


actually, probably not until there's a need for one. The Kona 3 was a response to the new PCI-e architecture in the Apple machines, not because there was a pressing need for an upgraded card.

Walter Biscardi, Jr.
http://www.biscardicreative.com
HD Editorial & Animation for Food Network's "Good Eats"
HD Editorial for "Assignment Earth"

"I reject your reality and substitute my own!" - Adam Savage, Mythbusters


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Michael Alberts
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Jan 31, 2007 at 9:50:09 pm

[Saddler] " The Kona 3 can uprezz 720p to 1080p on the fly for output to the studio monitor, correct? Does this slow the card down any, or is there a dedicated chip for this?"

We've noticed a 1 frame delay in cross converting from 720p to 1080p to an HDCAM deck. You'll need to account for this in your timeline. Other than that, yes, it's real time.
No noticeable difference in performance when comparing the Kona2 and the Kona3. We use both.

We picked up a HDW-D2000 B stock that came from the Winter Olympics. We got a good deal on the deck with full warranty. Our justification for the purchase was a guaranteed 13 shows that need to go out to HDCAM 23.98 1080psf. The content is 720p. We still rent D5 decks when needed. No way I'll be buying one of those beasts.

[Saddler] " Any guesses when the Kona 4 will be released?"

What new features would you like to see in a Kona 4? Keep in mind that MacPro's keep getting faster and faster every 6-8 months. Any hardware you add to a Kona 4 would be superseded by your computers processor in due time.



Michael Alberts
Ambidextrous Productions, Inc.


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Wayne Carey
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Feb 5, 2007 at 5:59:15 pm

[Michael Alberts] "What new features would you like to see in a Kona 4? Keep in mind that MacPro's keep getting faster and faster every 6-8 months. Any hardware you add to a Kona 4 would be superseded by your computers processor in due time. "

Hardware effects would be nice..... kinda like what Avid offers but at a much lower price.

_______________________________

Wayne Carey
Schazam Productions
http://www.schazamproductions.com


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wcrogers
Re: Kona 3 vs. Kona 2 for DVCPRO HD
on Mar 1, 2007 at 1:53:01 am

Sadler,

How are you treating your SD footage in the DVProHD timeline?



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