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Workflow Components?

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Bill
Workflow Components?
by
on Jan 22, 2007 at 7:51:16 pm

I am looking into building a new system and would like to hear opinions on workflow and components. The facility primarily uses the UVW-1800 as the workhorse. They have begun to dabble with HDV and are looking toward the future with some sort of HDSDI deck. I have searched the cow and read about systems running the Kona 3 for SDI/HDSDI and the IO L/A for component analog. I was considering including a HD10AVA run through a patch panel from the UVW and the HVR-M10U for seamless Analog/SDI/HDSDI. This would eliminate the need for the IO L/A. It seems to easy so I must be missing an obvious part of the equation. Your professional input would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 23, 2007 at 2:05:06 am

you will not "get rid" of the need for analog composite or component for a long time. Many people try to use converters (like the AJA HD10AVA) to avoid using an I/O LA or I/O. Forget it. You are going to have to deal with analog for quite a while, in our "digital age". Get the I/O - as a matter of fact - get the I/O, and forget the Kona 3 for now. If you are not doing HD now, you don't need it. The I/O will make you happy. Then, later on, you can get teh Kona 3.

If you think you are planning ahead for the future - you are kidding yourself. Every one of these products becomes outdated after a few years. Everything from AJA, everything from Blackmagic - everything from everyone else (including the products that have been discontinued, like the teriffic Pinnacle CineWave). You cant' plan for 3 years from now. The I/O has miraculously been a great product for BOTH Apple PCI-X and PCI-E products.

You will not regret getting an I/O box - especially when you have to upconvert your Beta material in the future to HD. With all that said, the HD10AVA is teriffic. In the next few years, you will own quite a bit of AJA hardware.

Bob ZElin


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JeremyG
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 23, 2007 at 4:16:58 am

Bob is right, the full io combined with the Kona 3 (or Kona 2) is a sweet setup. The only thing is that you mentioned you were dabbling in HDV. If you are dabbling in HDV the hd10AVA is the way to go as the io will not handle HD video. I hope someday there will be an ioHD, but now, there isn't. If the UVW1800 is your workhorse, I would also suggest the full io. And also get yourself the Kona3 and AVA. It's the cost of doing business, unfortunately.


Jeremy


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Bill
Re: Workflow Components?
by
on Jan 23, 2007 at 2:52:59 pm

Thank you gentlemen for your insight. I should have been more clear. The facility is a sports arena that will soon be installing new HD Diamond Vision displays. Currently the game presentation is completely SD. I am positive a majority of the outside advertisers will submit in SD (the need to keep the UVW). They are going to utilize HD/DVCProHD for the inhouse production in order to take full advantage of the new displays. I was just trying to configure a FCP system that editors could operate with minimal switching between hardware. The less software configurations they have to switch the easier on everybody. I just envisioned simply patching a few cables as opposed to going into prefs and switching capture devices. The IO L/A in combination with the Kona 3 and the HD10AVA is a perfect system and with a little training most should grasp the idea. And heck, whats an extra grand or two when your building an entire suite.


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Bob Zelin
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 24, 2007 at 1:36:18 am

If you get the I/O instead of the I/O LA, you will be able to use the I/O to convert to SDI, and let the Kona UPCONVERT to HD-SDI for you. This means, that if your client submits a Beta tape to you, you can pass it thru your Beta VTR, into the I/O, have it come out SDI, and send this signal into the
Kona 3, where you will see glorius HD from your Beta SD signal, on your HD
Diamond Vision screen.

This is the way to go. The HD10AVA also let you convert your Beta VTR into
SDI for this application.

Bob Zelin


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Bill
Re: Workflow Components?
by
on Jan 24, 2007 at 3:26:27 pm

Bob,
Thanks for the alternative and explanation. What are the advantages of the IO to SDI into the Kona 3 over a HD10AVA. It seems they both do the same thing. I could run the compninputs of the DH10AVA to a patchbay and patch my BetaSP, HDV deck or any other analog output device that comes my way. From my perspective it is the difference of 1500-1800 dollars depending on where I purchase the hardware. Thank you for your patience as I educate myself on the array of possibilities out there.


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JeremyG
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 24, 2007 at 5:07:44 pm

Perhpas Bob has a better explanation, but I'll take a stab at it. The advantage of getting the io AND AVA is that you will have to do significantly less patching and changing of dip switches on the AVA everytime you change a format. The AVA will run from your HDV deck only, and the io will run to/from your Beta (via analog) and Kona (via SDI). If you need to patch in the HDV deck, then all you are switching is the SDI cable and deck control. Speaking of, what are you going to do for deck control for the HDV deck? Also, this will allow you to keep the Kona analog output hardwired to your monitor and then you won't have to patch that in every time you make a Beta Master. The io becomes are very sweet d/a/a/d between your Beta deck and Kona.

Jeremy


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Bob Zelin
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 24, 2007 at 11:01:04 pm

Jeremy has an excellent explanation. The HD10AVA was designed for HDV VTR's to get the analog HD signal and analog audio off of a Sony or JVC HDV VTR (like the BR-HD50, HVRM-10U, HVRM25U, etc.) - and convert all this analog HD stuff to HD-SDI for the Kona 3.

You certainly can use the HD10AVA to convert a Beta VTR to a SDI signal, and then send this into your Kona 3, but IN MY STUPID OPINION - you are just killing yourself with all these combinations. In my opinion, everyone who works in SD should own an AJA I/O box. Then, when you graduate to HD, you buy the Kona 3, and use your investment to UPCONVERT your analog stuff to SDI, which will then get upresed by the Kona 3 to HD.
Much more elegant (with the nice Pro I/O and Kona control panels, instead of a bunch of little switches).

You see - too many choices make things so confusing !

Bob Zelin


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Ken Zukin
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 25, 2007 at 1:40:31 am

Bob,

Suprised to hear you recommed the IO over the Kona LH card for those of us still working in SD. I'm primarily a cameraman who uses a Panasonic SDX900 camera (DVCPRO 50), and some Beta SP. Not planning to migrate up to HD for a couple of years. I thought the preferred way for me to go would be the LH card. I'm currently editing with an Aurora Pipe cap. card, but Aurora is teetering on going out of business - if they haven't already - and I'm going to need to buy another capture card.

Your thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Ken


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Bob Zelin
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 25, 2007 at 2:08:29 am

the Kona LH card is a fantastic product - but if you are planning on going to HD in the near future, but just need SD right now - there is NO QUESTION in my mind that the combination of the AJA I/O and the Kona 3 is far superior to simply purchasing the Kona LH or LHe. Why? Because of UPCONVERSION TO HD. You have clients, and these clients have all this Beta footage, and they will want it in their new HD projects in the future. The Kona LH will NOT up convert. Let me be clear here. No Blackmagic product will upconvert either. You need the Kona 3 to do this (or Kona 2 in an older system).

I don't think anyone ever said "damn, why did I buy that stupid AJA I/O box".

Bob Zelin


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JeremyG
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 25, 2007 at 5:48:02 am

And Ken, the SDX900 provides a pretty good format for upconversion, especially if you have some glass on the front of it.

Jeremy


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JeremyG
Re: Workflow Components?
on Jan 25, 2007 at 5:58:04 am

What I meant to say was,

And Ken, the SDX900 provides a pretty good format for upconversion, especially if you have some NICE glass on the front of it.

Jeremy


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Ken Zukin
Re: Workflow Components?...thanks guys.
on Jan 25, 2007 at 6:53:15 am

Bob & Jeremy,

Many thanks for the advice. I guess my simple mind has a hard time wrappiing itself around the idea that ONE card can't do it all. Editing gear is much cheaper than camera equip. - my G5/Pipe set up has paid for itself many times over, so I'm not opposed to spending some $$$ so that I can stay reasonably current.

One last question though - isn't the AJA IO a little less in quality than the LH card? I've tried to wade thru the info on the AJA website, and haven't been able to figure this out.

Thanks.


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JeremyG
Re: Workflow Components?...thanks guys.
on Jan 25, 2007 at 7:41:05 am

[Ken Zukin] "sn't the AJA IO a little less in quality than the LH card?"

Not at all, both are same excellent quality.



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infohou
Re: Workflow Components?
on Feb 4, 2007 at 12:54:18 am

[Bob Zelin] "there is NO QUESTION in my mind that the combination of the AJA I/O and the Kona 3 is far superior to simply purchasing the Kona LH or LHe. Why? Because of UPCONVERSION TO HD"

Or you can upconvert in your NLE. I can use FCP 5.1 to do this. Of course it is extra steps/time. And with an LH you don't get dual sdi input. Not a problem in the OP's enviroment I suspect.

Y'all be cool,
Robert



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